Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

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Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  leonardobento em Sex Nov 13 2009, 15:48

O segundo Mutação em Debate será realizado no domingo, dia 22/11, às 20 horas, no ChatBox. O tema será Novidades nos EUA.

Dessa forma, será permitido falar sobre fatos que não ocorreram no Brasil, isto é, spoilers.

Antecedentes:



Complexo de Messias: Conseqüência direta de Espécie em Extinção. O nascimento de um bebê mutante no Alasca coloca em confronto diversos grupos: os Purificadores, grupo formado anteriormente pelo Reverendo William Striker (morto em New X-Men meses antes), que deseja o fim da espécie mutante; os Carrascos, liderados pelo Senhor Sinistro, que querem o bebê para si; os Acólitos, reunidos por Exodus, buscando seguir tudo o que foi pregado por Magneto; os Carniceiros, sob as ordens de Lady Letal; o Predador X, criatura que se alimenta de mutantes; e os próprios X-Men, em várias equipes – X-Men (todas as equipes), New X-Men, X-Factor e a X-Force (formada durante a saga). Cable, que havia sido aparentemente morto meses antes, consegue ficar com a bebê. Ao final da batalha, Scott autoriza Cable a levar a pequena messias mutante ao futuro. Bishop, que vivera em um futuro que essa bebê tenha sido responsável pela piora das condições de vida da população mutante, tenta impedir, mas acaba ferindo Xavier mortalmente. Ao final da saga, Ciclope decide debandar os X-Men. Publicado aqui entre X-Men 85 e 88.



Divididos Lutaremos: Scott dissolve os X-Men. Não há nenhum plot principal: cada revista desenvolve o seu próprio arco de histórias. Uncanny mostra os principais personagens lidando com o fim do grupo. Contudo, com São Francisco sendo transformada em uma colônia hippie, Ciclope e Emma entram em ação. Em X-Men: Legacy, temos o que aconteceu com Xavier: ele não foi morto e seu corpo foi roubado pela Sentinela Ômega. Reacordado após uma batalha psíquica contra Exodus, o professor sai em buscar de suas memórias. Em X-Factor, o grupo lida com a ida de Layla e de uma das cópias de Madrox para o futuro e a saída de Lupina. Os Novos X-Men também não existe, mas alguns deles são recrutados por Donald Pierce, disfarçado de Ciclope, para formar os Jovens X-Men e enfrentar a nova Irmandade dos Mutantes (antigos Novos Mutantes). Lobinho é morto por Pierce. A equipe secreta reunida por Scott em Complexo de Messias, X-Force, começa sua jornada para fazer o trabalho sujo que garanta a sobrevivência da espécie humana, enfrentando Bastion e os Purificadores. Cable está no futuro e precisa proteger a bebê a todo custo da perseguição de Bishop. Wolverine recebe uma missão: caçar Mística. Os outros personagens ganham pequenas histórias na mini Divided We Stand. Publicado aqui entre X-Men 88 e 95 (Jovens X-Men), X-Men Extra 88 e 93, e Wolverine 53 e 56.



Destino Manifesto: Ao final do arco anterior de Uncanny, a prefeita de São Francisco os convida para morar na cidade, símbolo do refúgio de minorias. Os X-Men estão reunidos novamente. Em sua primeira missão, o grupo precisa deter o antigo membro dos Satânicos, Empata. Além disso, durante a Invasão Secreta, eles conseguem expulsar os invasores skrulls, utilizando-se de uma infecção de Vírus Legado à raça inimiga. Em Legacy, Xavier continua sua busca pelas memórias, voltando a fatos do passado, como a presença de Sinistro por trás do projeto Útero Negro, onde seu pai trabalhava. Ele também entra em contato com Ciclope, mas Scott e Emma lhe dão uma dura lição de moral. Gambit também começa a interagir com o professor. X-Factor também passa pela Invasão Secreta, quando ganham Longshot e Darwin na equipe. Os Jovens X-Men se mudam para São Francisco também, e Pó passa a sofrer com um problema que a está levando à morte. Em X-Force, a equipe parte para novas missões, evitar que Vanisher ponha as mãos no Vírus Legado e entrar de vez em conflito com Bastion e todos os vilões reerguidos pelo vírus tecnorgânico. Cable continua sua missão de proteger a messias mutante, agora um pouco mais crescida; e Scott manda a X-Force para caçar Bishop. Temos também a volta da elite mutante em ação: Surpreendentes X-Men, pelas mãos de Ellis & Bianchi, com um mistério: alguém está tentando recriar a mutação cientificamente. Os outros personagens ganham pequenas histórias na mini Manifest Destiny. Publicado aqui entre X-Men 91 até agora, X-Men Extra 90 até agora, e Wolverine 57 até agora.

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Desenrolar (os principais fatos que ainda não saíram no Brasil):



Manifest Destiny: Em Uncanny, temos mais dois arcos antes do crossover Utopia. No primeiro, temos Colossus lidando com a perda de Kitty e a nova sede dos X-Men, em São Francisco, tornando-se um verdadeiro abrigo de mutantes do mundo todo. No segundo, a volta da Rainha dos Duendes (Madelyne Pryor), juntamente com uma Irmandade dos Mutantes (apenas mulheres, como Espiral, Mestra Mental e Lady Mental), que, a fim de trazer o corpo de Jean de volta á vida, faz um experimento com o corpo de Psylocke. No final, Betsy volta para seu corpo oriental. Forma-se também o X-Club, um grupo de pesquisadores e cientistas, liderado pelo Fera, a fim de tentar descobrir uma solução para a extinção dos mutantes. Em Legacy, temos a volta de Vampíra, que estava sumida desde Complexo de Messias, lidando com as memórias que pegou de Mística. Xavier, Vampira, Gambit e Perigo conseguem vencer um ataque Shiar. Em X-Factor, Syrin dá a luz ao seu filho com Madrox, mas, ao entrar em contato com o pai, o bebê é reabsorvido como se fosse uma cópia, levando a irlandesa a surtar e odiar profundamente o Homem-Múltiplo. A série dos Jovens X-Men é encerrada, com apenas 12 edições. Em X-Force, o caminho está se preparando para Messiah War e também para Necrosha, com uma história que explica a história de Selene e de Eli Baird. Em Cable, o protagonista casa em um dos futuros com uma mulher chamada Hope. Com a sua morte, ele decide batizar a menina com esse nome.



Messiah War: É um crossover entre Cable e X-Force. Ciclope consegue descobrir o exato momento temporal em que Cable está e envia a X-Force atrás dele. Como prelúdio, há uma mini sobre a história de Bishop, quando descobrimos que Hope, em seu futuro, tornar-se-á a responsável pela opressão aos mutantes. Durante Messiah War, a segunda parte da trilogia do Messias, a X-Force tem ajuda do Deadpool desse futuro na buscar por Cable, o que acabam conseguindo. Deadpool conta que nesse futuro quem domina é Conflyto e não Apocalypse. Conflyto e Bishop fazem uma aliança para matar Cable, Hope e Apocalypse. Os soldados de Conflyto atacam o grupo, mas são derrotados. Arcanjo vai atrás de um combalido Apocalypse. Hope é capturada por Conflyto, mas, no final, todos conseguem se salvar, com a ajuda de Apocalypse, que derrota Conflyto. Cable e Hope fogem pelo fluxo temporal, enquanto a X-Force retorna ao presente.



Dark Avengers/Utopia: Ao final de Invasão Secreta, Norman Osborn se torna o homem mais poderoso do mundo. Inicia-se o Dark Reign e ele tem agora um grupo de Vingadores à sua disposição. Em São Francisco, um grupo de humanos, liderados por Simon
Trask, começa a protestar pelas ruas contra os mutantes na cidade. Começa um motim. Vendo que os X-Men não conseguiram controlar a situação, Norman envia seus próprios X-Men (Mística disfarçada como Xavier, Daken como Wolverine, o Mímico, o Fera Negro, a Arma Ômega, Namor, Manto e Adaga) para lá, com Emma na liderança, juntamente com seus Vingadores. Ele mantém Fera e Xavier capturados. Emma passa a ajudar clandestinamente os X-Men – conseguindo conter o grupo de Trask -, enquanto Scott divide diversas tarefas entre os membros do grupo, a fim de que eles possam derrotar as duas equipes de Osborn. O X-Club traz á tona o Asteróide M. Namor e Emma se mostram definitivamente ao lado dos X-Men e contra Osborn. Após deixar Osborn lhe surrar na presença das câmeras, Ciclope faz um memorável discurso e declara que os mutantes viverão todos agora na nova ilha de Utopia (Asteróide M). Osborn declara que Utopia é uma prisão. Em X-Men Legacy, há um tie-in que serve para colocar Gambit, Perigo e Vampira de novo junto ao grupo.



Necrosha: Crossover entre X-Force, Legacy e Novos Mutantes. Selene, com ajuda de Eli Baird e do vírus tecnorgânico, ressuscita diversos mutantes mortos, entre eles antigos companheiros como Banshee, Cifra e Pássaro Trovejante, a fim de derrotar os X-Men em Utopia e por em prática seu novo plano: estender seu domínio a toda a raça mutante, tendo como base Genosha, local do maior extermínio de mutantes da história. Quem vai sobreviver?



Nation X: A continuação de Utopia. Ciclope agora é o maior líder da espécie e os mutantes precisam levar sua vida dentro da ilha. Xavier e Magneto estão entre os habitantes. O que acontecerá com a volta de Magneto? Ciclope será realmente o novo líder da espécie mutante? O que poderá acontecer de ruim a uma ilha que conta com Magneto, Xavier, Ciclope e Namor entre seus habitantes?



X-Factor: De fora dos últimos acontecimentos do universo mutante, o X-Factor teve recentemente a conclusão de todas as pontas soltas desde o início da série. Ficamos sabendo qual é o verdadeiro poder de Layla Miller, presenciamos a Rebelião Summers no futuro e o grupo enfrentando o Córtex no presente. De saída de Detroit, eles retornam para Nova Iorque, que está sem os X-Men.

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Futuro:



Second Coming: Terceira e última parte da trilogia da Messias. Começa em março do ano que vem, com a volta de Hope e Cable para o presente. Finalmente será revelado quem é Hope. Será que Jean Grey retornará? Façam suas apostas!

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Momento História:

Utopia: É o nome da comunidade ideal, descrita por Thomas Morus, e nome de seu livro mais famoso. A palavra tem origem no grego e significa "não-lugar", ou seja, algo que não existe, um verdadeiro ideal. Contudo, costumam atribuir à palavra o significado de Eutopia, isto é, um local perfeito.

Second Coming: O nome da saga é bastante sugestivo. Significa, na Bíblia, a ressurreição dos mortos, a volta de Jesus (o Messias) no dia do Juízo Final e o estabelecimento do Reino de Deus na Tera.

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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  DanReztek em Sex Nov 13 2009, 17:05

hmm, disso tudo aí que foi lançado recentemente pra mim tá faltando ler Messiah War e praticamente todo X-Factor Crying or Very sad .
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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  leonardobento em Ter Nov 17 2009, 09:19

DanReztek escreveu:hmm, disso tudo aí que foi lançado recentemente pra mim tá faltando ler Messiah War e praticamente todo X-Factor Crying or Very sad .

Participe do debate para poder se inteirar.

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Relembrando Utopia

Mensagem  leonardobento em Qua Nov 18 2009, 08:05

Seguem abaixo uma série de entrevistas feitas com Matt Fraction durante Utopia, sob o nome Evolution Revolution:

Spoiler:
Several months ago, two groups of people arrived in the city of San Francisco, both with competing agendas. The first group is known as the X-Men, lead by Cyclops, and they were looking for a new home for mutant kind, one where they could be accepted and live in the public eye.

The second group is called the Humanity Now Coalition and is made up of humans lead by Simon Trask. They shunned publicity and quietly built up support for their anti-mutant agenda, so they could attack the X-Men and other mutants through the power of government.

On sale now from Marvel Comics, “Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Utopia” depicted the first major confrontation between the two sides, a citywide riot that escalated into something even uglier when Norman Osborn and his Dark Avengers showed up to try and keep the peace.

To help keep track of all the big action, bombshell revelations and behind-the-scenes fun of “Utopia,” CBR News kicks off today EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, a new exclusive feature where writer Matt Fraction joins us for a page-by-page look at each installment of the summer crossover between “Dark Avengers” and “Uncanny X-Men.”

CBR: Simon Trask leads his anti-mutant followers in a rally of support for Proposition X, a state law that would strip mutants of the right to reproduce. Did you intend for the scene to be a commentary on California's controversial anti-gay marriage law, Proposition 8?

MATT FRACTION: We were on this path before I was really made aware of the Prop 8 kerfuffle. I abhor that and find it repulsive and repugnant that gay marriage is banned. So it wasn't a deliberate exploration of the current political climate but it was just one of those things.
We ran into this in writing “Iron Man” a couple of times too. You think you're just speculating on current events and hypothesizing five minutes into the future and by the time this stuff is written and published that five minutes has caught up with you. So this is one of those things where you think you're pushing it, nobody would dare legislate something like this, but is it really so hard or strange to believe? I wish more than anything that Prop 8 would have been struck down, but this was an unfortunately timed coincidence.

CBR: When Trask's people march down Market Street, they are met by members of the X-Men protesting the rally. Tempers flare and violence breaks out.

MF: When Trask goes, “My God-- the Mutants have cut us off,” the look on his face is from a very specific moment in the art direction. This is exactly what Trask wanted to happen it's a big victory for him. It's been about a year now since Trask showed up on our game board, an event which facilitated the Sentinel's showing up. Trask has been silently agitating for a long time. He's been planning this and nothing is better for his cause than a bunch of mutants punching a bunch of humans on the nightly news.

CBR: The scenes on this page here demonstrate that the growing tension and violence in San Francisco is a problem for everybody in the Marvel Universe.

MF: This is more than just a riot. This more than mutant versus anti-mutant. This is going off. This is a huge thing. The crux of the post 'Civil War' and post 'Secret Invasion' Marvel Universe is very specific and very designed and this kind of thing doesn't logically fit into that world anymore. There just can't be a mutant/anti-mutant riot without it becoming a federal fucking case. So this is the real deal and we kind of wanted to sample reactions around the Marvel Universe.
Storm is busy in “Black Panther” right now so we needed to check in with Storm. To my chagrin, this is her only appearance, but her husband is in a bad way. So Storm can't be there, but of course her heart goes out to her friends and teammates. And where is Wolverine? When this goes down he's on the wrong coast. With the Fantastic Four, it's how do you explain to your child what a hate crime is? Then we check in with two members of the Cabal, who see that things are about to get interesting and wonder if Norman can pull this off.

CBR: Why did you set the Mutant Rights rally in San Francisco’s Castro District?

MF: To me, it felt right. It felt like an icon of political consciousness and resistance to the legislation of identity, regardless of what that identity is. And it was a great visual. It's got such a history. The Castro is going to be visited by people in the real world for generations, so this was also the chance to make San Francisco a character and take advantage of this grand, sacred space.

CBR: In this scene, the powder keg that San Francisco has become finally explodes as pro and anti-mutant rioting erupts across the city. There's even cases of mutant on mutant violence as the young mutant Rockslide and Colossus come to blows.

MF: It's insane to write this stuff because it's so big. At one point I felt like we were missing out on a big set piece, but then I was like, “If we do this right, the whole book is a set piece.” It's one of those miracle things that comics can do that film and TV really can't without costing a trillion dollars. The scenes in this book would be some of the most expensive things in the world to film with this many people all the time. This is a huge story. It's meant to feel tense and if we did our job right, hopefully you're going to feel worried or panicked.
I thought back a lot to the end of “The Prisoner,” where you get a bunch of different looks at revolution and rebellion. One of them is just youthful rebellion, which doesn't really know what it's rebelling against and in the heat of the moment here Rockslide panics and loses it. There are no easy answers here. It's not black and white. No one is exactly right or wrong as things go crazy here. There will be a lot of apologizing later on.

CBR: Ms. Marvel swoops down out of the sky like some living attack copter, felling pro-mutant rioters and then turning her attention to the X-Men that were trying to stop them.
MF: The scene is really about that last line of hers, “We're the good guys.” We struck a female-heavy scene in the Castro so it seemed natural to bring in the female Dark Avenger, but really I just wanted this to be one of those hand-of-God moments, where all the mutants are fighting and bickering back and forth and there's this sudden swat of power. With the Sentry falling back, this was the visual we needed. The Dark Avengers are on the scene and they're not playing around

CBR: In this scene, Hawkeye lends a hand to the San Francisco Police and shows remarkable restraint at the same time.

MF: At one point I did write a draft where he opens fire and starts winging people, but we had to dial it back. And as you can see from his dialogue, I don't know how long you can keep a dog like him on the chain. As the story progresses his blood is going to boil hotter and hotter because he's the killer who can't kill and like he says that sucks.

CBR: Norman Osborn informs fellow Cabal member Emma Frost that their arrangement with respect to mutants is not working, and she finds out what his new plan is.

MF: Like Osborn says, they had a deal and it didn't work, so here's the new plan. Mutants aren't being quiet and Cyclops can't seem to get people to listen to him, so Norman needs law and order on the streets. He knows where this ends for mutants and he doesn't want to go there. It's a war he doesn't want to fight. He can't afford to get trapped in a police action. The last thing he needs is an organized and militarized mutant front, so he's going to try and contain it in a way that Cyclops couldn't. Since he and Emma have this arrangement she's his “man.”
Norman didn't want the riots to happen. The deal was, “You stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours.” Since Cyclops lost control of things, this is the way it's got to be. Osborn needs mutants quiet and happy, not militarized, angry, and out on the streets blowing stuff up.


CBR: In an effort to gain influence over the rioting mutant populace, Norman Osborn has recruited Charles Xavier -- but has he? Because in the final panel, Professor X is also revealed as being the prisoner in the prison cell next to the Beast.
MF: We get to that pretty immediately in the next issue. One of these is real Professor X and one is not. Which is which? And Why? Discuss . . .

FRACTION'S FINAL THOUGHTS ON UTOPIA PART 1
This was definitely the biggest thing I ever wrote. I think Nick Lowe and Axel Alonso in editorial saved me a few times from getting completely lost. The job they did was phenomenal. If people dig this, it was definitely a team effort. This is my first thing of this kind of size, scale, scope, and magnitude. They being old pros though were able to guide me through. So their importance can't be overstated.
And getting pages from Marc Silvestri was amazing because he's a legend. Him, Jim Lee, and John Romita, Jr. are the three guys who define my prime years of reading X-Men as a kid. So it's just great. I'm working with a living legend. I got these pages and it was like, “Holy shit it's Marc Silvestri drawing stuff I wrote!'”

FRACTION LOOKS AHEAD TO UNCANNY X-MEN #513/UTOPIA PART 2
The art is by Terry Dodson and Rachel Dodson -- who is one of the best inkers working in comics. We've got more fighting, fugitives, media, and some old buddies show up. There's something insidious below Alcatraz. We meet all of the Dark X-Men and get a little taste of who they are and why they're here, there's a surprise member…
Then we reveal what Trask is up to. Eagle-eyed readers that remember “Uncanny X-Men” #500 will know the trick up his sleeve of which I speak. Then we wrap up with Hellion and holy cow hold onto your hats!


Spoiler:

The mutants are angry. In part one of the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men crossover, “Utopia,” mutants took to the streets San Francisco and expressed their rage through acts of protest and super powered mayhem, attracting the attention of thousands upon thousands of people, including Norman Osborn.

Fired up super-powered people are a challenge to Osborn's Dark Reign over the Marvel Universe, but the mutant population is not something he can tackle in an aggressive and public manner -- at least, not yet. So in “Uncanny X-Men” #513, part two of “Utopia,” Osborn enacted both public and secret plans to help him bring mutants under control.

Today in part two of EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, “Utopia” writer Matt Fraction joins CBR once again for an exclusive page-by-page look at all action and intrigue of his story's second chapter, which was illustrated by Terry and Rachel Dodson. If you're just joining us, welcome! You can get caught up by reading the first installment right here.

CBR: Cyclops shows off that he's more than just the brains of the X-Men by easily eluding the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agents tasked with arresting him.

MATT FRACTION: He does a lot of move planning and barking of orders in that first issue. Once Cyclops was out there though in the streets it was important to see the leader leading and being a man of action. It was nice to see him asserting his own authority over events rather than just stopping in the name of the law because the name of the law asks you to. So it was also important to show Cyclops not just putting up his hands and doing what the law tells him to do.
And this was just one of my favorite scenes with Terry [Dodson]. That shot of him vaulting away was great stuff.

CBR: In this scene there's a very tense reunion between Hank McCoy and his old mentor Professor Charles Xavier, who readers discover later on in this issue is the real deal.

MF: We know but Hank doesn't, poor guy. He can't really trust anybody. It's heartbreaking to write Charles and McCoy at odds like that. It's sad. Things are dire.

CBR: Professor X seems more than a little disoriented and worked over in this scene. Is it possible that he's experienced the effects of the Omega Machine that he warns Hank about on the next page?

MF: Yes, he absolutely has. The dots are not incredibly difficult to connect. Charles has been roughed up a little bit, which is also a bummer because it's the first time I've gotten to write Professor X and he's sort of beaten up. He's not his wonderful, glorious Patrick Stewart largesse, but rather a compromised, beaten up dude trying very much to keep it together.
More will be revealed. As we progress through the story what exactly is going on in the belly of Alcatraz is revealed. It puts a couple of different pieces together and yes there is something happening to mutant prisoners here.

CBR: In this scene we see that Henry McCoy's opposite number from another timeline has secretly joined the ranks of Osborn's Dark X-Men. What made you want to include Dark Beast in this storyline?

MF: After issue #512, we've had a good five or six issues of Hank McCoy: Science Hero. He's so much fun to write. I've got a lot of affection for the character and here we've got this anti-Beast that is a perversion and corruption of everything that's good and true in Hank, and the duality of these characters is a lot of fun. I think Mike Carey did some great work with both Beast characters in “Endangered Species” so this is a callback to that.
He's also here because of Norman's strategic thinking. When you've got a line up of people in front of cameras and you're declaring them the X-Men it makes sense to have a big guy with wings, a guy in a wheel chair and a Beast-looking fellow.

CBR: In this double-page spread, Norman Osborn introduces Emma Frost to the team members that he recruited that make up the public face of her Dark X-Men. Why did you want to include these particular characters in the roster?

MF: Mimic is formidable and I think he's a lot of fun. And like I said, there's something to having a big fellow with wings on a team claiming to be the public's X-Men. I also like the feeling that he's an also- or never-ran. It’s like, off to the side he’s in his own Kevin Costner movie and people are wondering if he’s over the hill or if he has one last chance to make a go out of it. That’s something I hadn’t really done before so it was nice to get a taste of that.
Cloak and Dagger made sense because they’re such terrific characters and bringing them back, brushing them off and putting them here was a lot of fun. Both of their power sets are great and this is an opportunity to use them in a way we’ve not seen in awhile. What happens when you take these perpetual runaways and force them to be part of a team?
Weapon Omega’s power set makes him really formidable and it’s something quite functional. Looking at him, one could connect the dots with regards to what Osborn and Dark Beast are up to.
And Daken being in this scene leads to my favorite line so far in the crossover, “People love Wolverine. Who knew?” And with Daken as Wolverine, I get to write someone who’s definitely psychotic. Whereas Wolverine is a beer-swilling redneck, Daken is the opportunity to write a refined and almost erudite Wolverine. I really like what [“Wolverine Origins” writer] Dan [Way] has done with Daken. He’s such a great foil for Wolverine.

CBR: Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner, is the final member of the Dark X-Men.

MF: He’s Emma’s addition to the team, which ties the team a little more into the Cabal and this year’s X-Men Annual. His arrival shows that Emma is playing some games of her own. She’s not passively taking things. She’ making these incredibly difficult decisions on the fly. Is she playing along with Osborn? Is she trying to do the right thing? Has she given up and is she doing the wrong thing? Is she so furious with Scott that she’s willing to find her own means to justify her own ends? These are the questions I hope readers are wondering about. Whose side is Emma really on? And with Namor there, what does that mean?

CBR: With this scene, many readers are probably wondering just exactly who or what Simon Trask is.

MF: That’s explicitly answered next issue. We got a little hint of how dangerous he is as the end of “Uncanny X-Men” #500 and this is a distant callback to that. He’s more than just a guy in a suit and tie. This is his plan. We’ve been quietly building to this and the question now is, out of all those people he was marching with in the first part of “Utopia,” how many had he touched?

CBR: Hellion recruits some other disgruntled mutants and outlines his own plan for a more public and more aggressive solution to the mutant problems currently plaguing San Francisco. What made Hellion a good ringleader for this group?

MF: I think it fit his personality and there’s the youth-in-revolt factor. He’s not really one for strategy. He’s okay with getting arrested just as long as a large numbers of people all over the world see it. He’s an angry guy and doesn’t like being told what to do, especially that he can’t go outside because he’s a mutant. Imagine being told you can’t go out after dark because you’ve got brown hair.
So he’s found that not everybody wants to passively resist what’s going on. He’s definitely one of the more headstrong members of the younger X-Men. There’s a reason why he’s wearing the striped Quentin Quire sweater.

CBR: The collection of mutants with Hellion are interesting in that they include more notable mutants like Sunspot and Avalanche as well as characters nobody expected to see again -- like Adam X.

MF: Things are getting F’ING EXTREME! [laughs]. It’s a complicated thing that’s going on. It transcends good, bad, and everything else, so it’s all able bodied hands on deck, whether that’s somebody great like Avalanche or Sunspot, or whether its somebody further down the totem pole like Adam X.

FRACTION’ S FINAL THOUGHTS ON UNCANNY X-MEN #513
Terry and Rachel Dodson are able to perfectly handle the big crazy action moments with grace and fluidity. Their art is like a Max and Dave Fleischer cartoon. Their action scenes are just so smooth and great. Then they’ve got a knack for acting. They develop emotions and little subtle things. Terry can find ways to quietly evoke even the most arcane details from my scripts. They’ll be details that I just put in there to build mood for him and suddenly there's a thing where the camera tilts a little bit or pushes in ever so, and that’s great. He brings a real sense of acting to scenes where people are just sitting in rooms talking. They’re way formidable, those two crazy Dodsons!

FRACTION LOOKS AHEAD TO DARK AVENGERS #7/UTOPIA CHAPTER 3
Things go into overdrive and we get to see how the Dark Avengers feel about a group of Dark X-Men running around. Some of them develop a case of oldest child syndrome. Suddenly they’re not the apple of daddy’s eye anymore and that ruffles some feathers. Why aren’t they the ones out there cracking skulls? And how are they going to feel about Daken now? It’s like, are you an X-Man or an Avenger?


Spoiler:

The ranks of the Marvel Universe’s mutant populace may have shrunk to approximately 198, but even at that low number, the mutants are still a force to be reckoned with. In the current “Utopia” crossover between “Dark Avengers” and “Uncanny X-Men,” a power struggle is underway to determine the fate of the world’s mutants. On one side is Norman Osborn, who wants to tighten his control over mutants everywhere so they don’t threaten his Dark Reign over the world. On the other side are Cyclops and the X-Men, who want to remain independent of Osborn’s sinister machinations. Complicating things is the presence of the mysterious Simon Trask, who wants to take care of the mutant problem by eliminating them all together.
In “Dark Avengers” #7, part three of “Utopia,” a new wildcard came into play as Emma Frost and her Osborn sponsored team of Dark X-Men went on their first heroic mission. But whose side is Emma really on? How do the Dark Avengers feel now that Osborn is sponsoring two super teams?
In today’s installment of EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, we get the answers to those questions and more, straight from “Utopia” writer Matt Fraction, who returns to walk us through “Dark Avengers” #7. If you’re just joining us, feel free to catch up with installments one and two. Don’t worry—we’ll wait.

CBR: The Beast lying there after experiencing the effects of the Dark Beast’s Omega Machine. It’s both humorous and horrifying.

MATT FRACTION: It’s a grim scene but there’s a little bit of gallows humor. And really, what kind of monster would torture Hank McCoy? If you’re wondering who the bad guys are here you have it. Fuck Osborn and Dark Beast—torturing Hank McCoy means they’re animals! I love Hank. He’s been one of the moral centers of this book and the fact that things have gotten this bad, for him especially, should give us all pause. Whatever this machine of Dark Beast’s is, it’s not good.

CBR: In this scene, we see Emma Frost intervene to keep Daken, Wolverine’s son, from ending the life of Avalanche, who was part of a pro-mutant riot in San Francisco’s Union Square.

MF: Daken and Emma is a pot that will come to boil before too long.

CBR: While she may be forced to advance Osborn’s agenda as leader of his Dark X-Men, it seems that Emma is really trying to act as honorably as possible.

MF: We very rarely have advanced warnings of crisis and catastrophes. They happen very quickly and demand improvisation and adaptability. There’s not a lot of time to sit down and call everybody you know to work up plans and solutions. Ultimately Emma is doing the best she can for her kind in these circumstances.
At the risk of being unpopular back at Graymalkin [the X-Men’s headquarters], what was the alternative? If she didn’t lead the team what would Osborn have done? How far away are mutants from being put in camps?
CBR: So even when things are at their most dire, Emma Frost is still acting as a teacher and protector of mutants?

MF: Always. Even when she was in the Hellfire Club and hanging out with bad people her goal was always the education and protection of mutants. She was never Selene and Sebastian Shaw. She was there to train and protect people. Now, she might have been conniving, mean and a huge bitch, but protecting her people has always been her core value. She doesn’t give a fuck about who doesn’t like her because she’s saving lives and protecting people and she suspects that what she’s currently doing is keeping her people out of camps.

CBR: What was it like writing this scene with Cyclops and Norman Osborn?

MF: It was fantastic. I had a blast. I think Scott is a great character and I wanted him to have this scene so badly. He comes off as a complete badass and that is Scott Summers right there.

CBR: How much trouble has Cyclops started by telling Osborn to surrender? Based on Osborn’s reaction, it seems like Scott has gone and made things very personal.

MF: Yeah, he just went ahead and made himself a personal problem rather than a political one. Never the best strategy— or is it? Could Scott be trying to knock Norman off his game by using the old Rope-A-Dope?

CBR: In this scene it looks like the Dark Avengers are jealous of Osborn’s Dark X-Men.

MF: Almost all of them are a bunch of psychotic, sociopathic, attention starved lunatics. And if you give them a little attention and positive reinforcement they want more! They’re petty, small and jealous and they don’t share well with others.

CBR: Is Ares also jealous of the attention? Or is he just spoiling for a fight?

MF: Ares couldn’t give a shit about how many cameras are around. He’s a warrior and he’s sitting on the sidelines. He’s bored and misused. A hammer wants to hit nails; that’s just what it does. He’s seeing a perfectly ripe opportunity to ply his trade.

CBR: Emma Frost has a pretty strong reaction to the revelation that Osborn is working with Dark Beast.

MF: Dark Beast built death camps for mutants. Everybody knows who he is and what he’s capable of. So the question is, is Emma surprised by his presence? Or is she surprised that Osborn would reveal his presence?

CBR: Is Dark Beast’s presence in the Dark X-Men a deal breaker for Emma?

MF: Maybe. It’s never said explicitly but Emma realizes that if she’s not doing this that mutants are going to camps. That’s what’s going to happen if Osborn’s hand is forced. So Osborn and Dark Beast working together just reinforces everybody’s worst beliefs and expectations.

CBR: The Dark Avengers and Dark X-Men finally come to blows. What’s at stake in the clash between these two teams?

MF: Who is Daddy’s favorite? The Dark Avengers have been forced to share the stage with the Dark X-Men both metaphorically and literally in the sense that this month even their own comic book is being taken away from them. So they’re like, “No goddamn it! We’re better and bigger than this! We are stars! How dare they come in and take away our fame, attention, and spotlight!”

CBR: Here we finally learn the truth about who Simon Trask is and about his larger agenda.

MF: He’s the last of the Human Sentinels and sort of the last of the dangling Ed Brubaker subplots. We saw Trask planting his seeds as early “Uncanny X-Men” #500. He did that by touching people and spreading nanites which turn them into superpowered mutant killing machines. So he’s been ambling towards this larger goal for a while now.

FRACTION’S FINAL THOUGHTS ON “DARK AVENGERS’#7
Thank you to artist Luke Ross. The scene with Cyclops with a jet pack is fantastic and he really sells Norman Osborn’s reactions in those scenes as well. If you look at everybody in the background you’ll see the H.AM.M.E.R. guards are snickering and laughing their asses off.

FRACTION LOOKS AHEAD TO “UNCANNY X-MEN #514/ “UTOPIA” PART FOUR
Hang on because here we go! Trask goes mission critical. Surprises and twists happen as Cyclops is put to the test. There are three or four very important characters in the issue—they’re the last three people you would ever think of. Here’s a hint. They’re all girls.

Spoiler:

With ranks that include only about 200 members worldwide, the Mutants of the Marvel Universe are in danger of becoming extinct. In the current “Utopia” Crossover between “Dark Avengers" and “Uncanny Men,” the X-Men combat corruption, subjugation, and oppression under the Dark Reign of Norman Osborn, who, to those ends, is fielding his own team of Dark X-Men. So far, Osborn’s effort has been a success.
Norman shouldn’t count the Mutant community out just yet, though, because they’re lead by one of the most formidable thinkers in the world, Scott Summers -- Cyclops. And he has a plan.
In today’s installment of EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, “Utopia” writer Matt Fraction gets us ready for the story’s final act by offering insight and commentary on all the action and intrigue of “Uncanny” #514. If you’re just joining us, catch up on things with parts one, two, and three of this exclusive feature.

CBR: Cyclops briefs four different characters on the current situation and the parts they’re to play in what comes next. Why did you choose these four particular characters?

MATT FRACTION: This was really a payoff of a year of rebuilding the X-Women. These four women are all key components to Scott’s master plan, and it was a nice change to put these four together instead of Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Beast. So it was a chance to do something different and not quite as status quo.

CBR: Later in this issue, Cyclops tells some X-Men that the Dark X-Men can be defeated because they don’t work together as a team. But here we see characters like Cloak and Dagger working in tandem.

MF: Yes, but there’s something different between working in tandem and working together as a team. Ultimately, you’re dealing with a bunch of show boaters and lunatics. It’s the same thing with the Dark Avengers; they’re guys and girls who are ego driven. The most basic concept of teamwork is to understand and trust one another and the Dark Avengers and Dark X-Men would clearly tear each other apart the minute they had the opportunity.

CBR: What can you tell us about the current dynamic between Cloak and Dagger and their feelings on being part of the Dark X-Men? From this scene here it looks like one is being a dreamer and one is being a realist?

MF: They don’t want to belong to any team that would have them as members and they’re not stupid. They see the way things are run, hear the things that are said and recognize that they’ve made a deal with the devil. Ultimately this storyline is about Faustian pacts. This is Cloak and Dagger realizing how twisted the pact they made is.

CBR: Here we see Mimic working hard to actually try and reason with one of the human Sentinels. Does Mimic want to be a hero?

MF: I really like Mimic believing that being on the Dark X-Men is a “last shot”-type scenario. And he really earnestly wants to believe he’s on the side of the angels now. He’s going to get the action figure and the trading card and everything else. This is Mimic’s last shot at greatness, fame, and fortune. He’s over the hill and heading downwards and this is his one last shot to make it work.

CBR: It seems like Mimic’s hopes and dreams bounce up against the delusions of his teammate Omega.

MF: Yes, Omega is bonkers! His powers make him a type of cannibal in weird way, and he’s out of his mind. He thinks he’s dead and that he’s in Hell. Look at the people he’s killed and the things he’s done. His psyche could not handle it and he’s clearly damaged. He’s one of the people Osborn wanted for this team, so perhaps he’s The Sentry of the Dark X-Men.

CBR: It’s been hinted that Osborn and Dark Beast may have done some off-panel experiments on Omega. Is it possible that his delusions are the results of said experiments?

MF: Clearly, these amplified powers he’s been displaying have pushed him over the edge into manic instability.

CBR: We learn that part of Cyclops’s master plan called for Dani Moonstar to travel to Las Vegas and meet someone for a deal. Anything you can say about who Dani is meeting?

MF: The character Dani is meeting is someone who has appeared in the Marvel Universe before.

CBR: What’s the significance of the plaque on the entryway, “Lasciate Ogni Speranza Voi Ch’Entrate?”

MF: Google is you friend.
(It’s Italian for “Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter.”)

CBR: Here we have the X-Men squad tasked with neutralizing the Dark X-Men observing their targets. The membership includes: Pixie, Cyclops, Karma, Iceman, Colossus, Dazzler, and Northstar. How did you go about choosing the ranks for this team?

MF: I wanted to cluster some of the new people we brought in with some old favorites. So there’s some A-List X-Men superstars, and some up-and-comers. It’s a good cross-section of people who have gotten stage and screen time this last year.

CBR: Does each member of this team have specific Dark X-Man they’re supposed to take out? Or is it more that this team can take down the collective might of the Dark X-Men?

MF: A little bit of both. It’s fun to extrapolate how each of these people would deal with their opposite number and figure out who would do what, but really it’s just how Scott says, “Watch how they’re fighting. They’re not fighting together.” And Scott’s retort to Bobby at the end there is critical too. This is Scott working on Plan B.
The scenes with the X-Men watching the Dark X-Men served a couple of purposes. We got to watch the Dark X-Men kick ass. We got to watch Scott do what Scott does and see how he speaks to the team and preps them for what’s coming. There are storm clouds brewing and Scott knows that he’s getting everybody ready for them.

CBR: I take that it’s very significant that Magik is in this scene with three members of X-Force and that when Wolverine arrives, he’s in his X-Force togs?

MF: Yes, things are about to get messy and intense. I love that shot of Wolverine coming out of the water. It’s so terrific.

CBR: You end things with Psylocke and the X-Men Science Club on an undersea mission for Cyclops.

MF: Yes, please notice the nice X-shaped windshield. Terry Dodson, ladies and gentlemen. That wasn’t in the script. It’s just pure Terry.

CBR: How important is the Science Team’s mission?

MF: The science team’s mission is everything.

CBR: Are there any clues in this scene as to what the Science Club’s sub is moving over? It looks like some type of mysterious technology?

MF: You could probably extrapolate some guesses. There is something in the bay that Scott has tasked this team to bring to the surface. When we reveal what the thing at the bottom of the water is then the stakes become really clear.

FRACTION’S FINAL THOUGHTS ON “UNCANNY X-MEN” #514
This was one of my favorite issues that Terry has done on the series so far. There are so many characters and so much great stuff. Everything is in overdrive. The first three parts of “Utopia” are really about set up and this is the beginning of all the pieces coming together. Things really explode in the next issue.

FRACTION LOOKS AHEAD TO “UTOPIA” CHAPTER 5/ “DARK AVENGERS” #8
We reveal who Dani is meeting with. We get another and much more gruesome look at the Omega Machine. The Science Club’s plan is revealed. Dark Beast gets the surprise of his life. The Dark Avengers find themselves once again in position to be daddy’s favorites. Wolverine’s squad makes their move and a couple of characters are going to make pretty big choices. There’s lots of ins, outs and what-have-yous, and by the end Scott Summers gives the press conference to end all press conferences.

Spoiler:

Norman Osborn has made relatively few missteps in perpetrating his Dark Reign over the Marvel Universe. The former Green Goblin has proven he's a shrewd manipulator and tactician, so it's understandable that he'd go into “Utopia” -- the crossover between “Dark Avengers” and “Uncanny X-Men” -- with a sense of confidence. Unfortunately for Osborn, he was too confident and underestimated X-Men leader Cyclops, a man who's been doing this kind of work his whole life.
“In Dark Avengers” #8, the penultimate chapter of “Utopia,” readers saw just how badly Osborn misjudged Scott Summers, as Cyclops’ plan to extricate his fellow mutants from under Osborn's thumb came to fruition. In our latest installment of EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, “Utopia” writer Matt Fraction joins us to provide insight and commentary on all the big developments of the issue.
If you're just joining us you can catch up quickly with our links to parts one, two, three, and four of our feature.

CBR: In our last chat, you talked about how this storyline was about Faustian pacts. And here you have Dani Moonstar bargaining with Hela, who in the Marvel Universe is pretty much the Norse equivalent of the Devil.

MATT FRACTION: Bits and piece of Cyclops' plan are becoming clearer and clearer. Dani Moonstar powered up and back in her glory as a Valkyrie is an essential component of what's to come.

CBR: So this is sort of a callback to Dani's adventures in Asgard in “New Mutants Special Edition” #1 and “Uncanny X-Men Annual” #9?

MF: Exactly. She was a Valkyrie for a while. And now that she's no longer a mutant and has lost her powers I thought it would be great to get her back into a game changing position of power.

CBR: This page finishes a weeklong montage of Osborn's Dark X-Men in action. How much fun did you have writing this sequence?

MF: I think the only thing missing was the song “Walking on Sunshine” by Katrina and the Waves. It was a blast. This was more important than seeing Simon Trask get his ass handed to him [an event which happened off-panel]. Everybody knew that was going to happen. It's the Dark X-Men becoming heroes and celebrities, especially in the very pages of “Dark Avengers,” that's more important.

CBR: Also in this scene, it looks like Osborn is using an appearance on a talk show to politically take down the mayor of San Francisco. Is this the last we've seen of Mayor Sadie Sinclair?

MF: Things are looking dark, but we'll see. I actually like writing her an awful lot, so I don't want to get rid of her anytime soon. There is political capital being spent here to protect the X-Men, though. The Mayor has made her stand. She's standing with the X-Men and Scott specifically. Not everybody buys Osborn's bill of goods.

CBR: Scott's actions on this page and the way he talks about sticking to and having faith in the plan has me wondering just how long he's had this plan?

MF: It's a little bit like “Apollo 18.” It's not so much how long he's had it, it's that this is the plan he came up with from the pieces he had. There's that amazing scene in the movie where a box of items is dumped on the table and the engineers have to fix the ship with just this scrap they had laying around. This is the plan Scott came up with from his pile of scrap.

CBR: The way Cyclops quickly and cleanly arranges for the evacuation and relocation of the X-Men is bound to have some readers wondering if he ever sets down permanent roots.

MF: What kind of mind does this? What type of person is continuously evaluating every situation ten ways to Tuesday in order to figure out how to take advantage of it and exploit it? There is a kind of psychic burden to that life and we'll see the way it affects Scott.

CBR: Here you've got a pretty diverse collection of X-Men from a variety of faiths all standing united in Nightcrawler's chapel.

MF: Nightcrawler built his little chapel pretty much for an audience of one. If you go back and look over the last 18 or so issues, though, you'll see that every time we went back to the chapel there's been a few more people there. Whatever their faith may be Nightcrawler is kind of a moral beacon for the X-Men in times of crisis. That's something that interests me about the character and that's the role we wanted to show him playing.

CBR: Here we see X-Force doing what they do best, but one has to wonder how much longer X-Force can stay secret from the X-Men when they're on an operation like this?

MF: Very true. Ask yourself what they're doing there, who they're rescuing, and what would the secret of X-Force do to that person? How will Hank McCoy feel when a squad of killers are his salvation?

CBR: Emma Frost makes her move here and just like with Cyclops, I've got to ask how long has Emma had this plan to move against Osborn and the other Dark X-Men?

MF: There are parts of it that were very much improvisational but “Exodus” [the final chapter of the crossover] will answer some questions and so will “Dark X-Men: The Confession.” The core tenant of Scott and Emma's plan has been their faith in one another and I'm sorry for all the interviews and press I've done where I talked about Emma as the Black Queen. She's a good guy and she always was a good guy.

CBR: Emma's recruitment speech to Cloak and Dagger is interesting.

MF: I think she didn't want them to lose faith too quickly in her and what was going on. She knew the crucible moment was rapidly approaching. She sees the good in them that many people often don't and that they themselves don't see. Emma is always a teacher and protector. Here she's reaching out to kids that need teaching and protecting as well as shelter to allow themselves to grow.

CBR: Scott gives a press conference where he talks about leaving the United States, and there's an X Flag waving in the background. Have the X-Men brought Asteroid M up from the bottom of the bay and turned it into their own sovereign nation?

MF: Maybe it's a house boat? A floating hotel? Or a floating fortress? Or perhaps you're right it is a sovereign nation? In the months ahead we're going to have some fun trying to figure out exactly what this is. It's dealt with in the first couple of issues coming out of this crossover.

CBR: By holding a press conference, is Scott basically beating Norman at his own game?

MF: Yeah, a huge part of Norman's offensive campaign has been using the media and having that thrown back in his face will not sit well with the master manipulator. Scott has Norman exactly where he wants him. This was the scenario Scott had gamed out and this was the scenario Scott knew they were moving to.

CBR: With Namor and Emma Frost siding with the X-Men, Norman has lost two members of his Cabal. How does that make him feel?

MF: He's furious. Now that this has happened. I can clue you in that Namor's betrayal of Osborn is the impetus for the story we tell in “Dark Reign: The List-X-Men.” Namor is now standing with the good guys so the impetus of that tale is Osborn extracting revenge.

FRACTION'S FINAL THOUGHTS ON “DARK AVENGERS” #8
This was a big issue and I'm happy Luke Ross was able to provide the art for it. A lot of stuff happened. Now that the pacing has been revealed and Asteroid M is floating in the bay some might be wondering if it's the Mutant Israel or is the Mutant Masada? Or is it the Mutant Alamo?

FRACTION LOOKS AHEAD TO “DARK AVENGERS/UNCANNY X-MEN: EXODUS”
It's pretty much a 34-page fight scene. Scott is betting all the marbles that he's right and Norman is bringing everything to bear to prove that he's wrong. It's no holds barred. That's for sure.

Spoiler:

When the historians of the Marvel Universe look back on the Dark Reign of Norman Osborn, one thing will be clear, the Battle of San Francisco Bay will be recognized as a pivotal moment. The battle unfolded in the “Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Exodus” one-shot by writer Matt Fraction and artists Mike Deodato, Jr. and Terry Dodson, bringing to a close the six-part “Utopia” crossover between the two books.
In our final installment of EVOLUTION REVOLUTION, Matt Fraction joins CBR to offer insight and commentary on “Exodus” and discuss what the outcome of the Battle of the Bay means for Norman Osborn and the X-Men.
If you're just joining us, welcome! There's still time for one last dance after you catch up on what you missed with our links to parts one, two, three, four, and five of this feature.

CBR: Warren, in his Archangel form, walks out to confront Bullseye. With his wings spread out, it's almost like you've got two angels of death facing off.


MATT FRACTION: As Warren says earlier in the issue, “You don't want me to take him out.” You fight fire with fire. You send a killer to stop a killer.
And considering all the people that Mike Deodato had to draw in this issue and all the complex staging and fight choreography, there are some amazing shots. This was one of those. I love that panel so much, it's an iconic moment. When I wrote this scene it was just a fight scene, but when Mike drew it, it became highlight material and that's all Mike being a stone cold genius.

CBR: Based on what he tells Cyclops here, it sounds like you can do a lot of things to Norman Osborn, but you do not make him look stupid?

MF: Yeah, pride goeth before the fall and that's something we're going to see again in upcoming issues of “Invincible Iron Man ” as well. Norman has used the media as his weapon of choice to take over the world. The right cameras at the right time have made him look like a good guy and he's really a guy who's barely in control of his own faculties from moment to moment. So I wanted to show Norman fraying under the pressure of having the cameras on you and not being able to control the message.
And I think that's something Scott knew from Norman's reaction to his suggestion that the Dark Avengers surrender in an earlier part of this story. When Norman puffed his chest and huffed and puffed, I think Scott saw Norman's pride as his big weak spot. He then proceeded to poke it as hard as possible.

CBR: It seems like that the soundtrack for Dani Moonstar's arrival here should be Wagner's “Flight of the Valkyries.”

MF: Exactly. This was one of those story points by need of strategy. I was asking myself, “How do you beat Ares?” Then it was like, “We've got a Valkyrie on our side!” Only now after getting her powers directly from Hela she's like a Valkyrie plus.
This scene is very much a cue up for Zeb Wells' “New Mutants.” Dani Moonstar is a part of that cast. So read “New Mutants!” Zeb is going to take Dani to some great places and who didn't want to see her back on that winged horse?

CBR: Emma Frost arrives in the White Room mindscape that she built in an early “New Avengers” storyline in order to help the Sentry with his psychological problems. Why did Terry Dodson end up drawing this scene instead of Mike Deodato?

MF: I suspected that Terry would be drawing this stuff. As you mentioned, the White Room first showed up in a Sentry story from early on in Brian's [Bendis] “New Avengers” run. That story is one of my favorite arcs from that book. I love the metaphor that [“New Avengers” artist] Steve McNiven created to represent everything.
We've already played with some of the stuff in this scene too. If you go back and reread the “Cabal” special, the dialogue from the weird prescient dream that Emma Frost has? That's Bob's dialogue. So we knew this was coming for a long time. You don't need to have read all those different books, but if you have, their fresh in your head. It all links together. This representation, this metaphor of Bob's situation is something we've been coming to for a long time.

CBR: What exactly happens with the Sentry and the Void in this scene?

MF: Scott and Emma knew they couldn't beat the Sentry, so they had to distract the Void and for a split second Emma does just that. She keeps it within herself long enough for Bob Reynolds to snap to, realize what's happening, and flee. All they needed to do was to buy that half-a-second for the Sentry to take off and he flies into space as fast as he can. He realizes the best thing he can do is get off the battlefield. He goes off at the speed of light and the Void rushes after him to reconnect so they can be whole again.
Doing that has left a sliver of the Void in Emma's psyche. She's got this weird, twisted dagger of darkness incarnate in her brain. So she has to stay trapped in diamond form, which cuts her off from her psychic powers. If she were to go flesh and blood the Void would have access to the abilities of an Omega level telepath. So she's basically the carrier for a disease. That was the price she paid.

CBR: Here it looks like the X-Men finally win the Battle of the Bay by standing together as a united front for the television cameras.

MF: Yeah, they're taking Norman's weapon of choice out of his hands and playing with his head for a change. Scott was genuinely telling the truth earlier in the story when he said he didn't know what would happen next but that the world would bear witness. He got his people safe by doing this. He can at least guarantee that when his people go to bed at night they won't wake up with a knife at their throats.

CBR: Did having the cameras there humanize the mutant struggle for the citizens of the Marvel Universe?

MF: I think so. It let people see the face of it, and as Ms. Marvel said there were too many X-Men and the only way for them to win was to kill everybody, but you don't get to walk back from genocide when it's caught on camera. You don't get to spin genocide to make a political point.

CBR: You’re making an observation about Dark Reign. For the villains to hold onto the power they gained as heroes, they can't act behave according to their natures, at least not when there are cameras around.

MF: Right, and Norman is so addicted to the power that he's acquired that it momentarily trumps his villainy and bloodlust.

CBR: On the previous page Cyclops claimed that the battle fought in the Bay was a victory for the X-Men and mutants. But here, Norman Osborn is back in front of the cameras spinning things the other way.

MF: Norman really does feel like, “Great! I won. I got the X-Men off the board.” His previous agreement with Emma Frost was, “You keep your people quiet and everything is going to be peachy.” And when they weren't quiet, he had to step in and that's how everything got started. Now that mutants are on a rock floating in San Francisco Bay, though, that's it. He's got them all cornered. It's like he's forced them on a reservation.

CBR: So in Norman’s mind, it's easier for him to level the X-Men's new island home than it was to level San Francisco?

MF: Exactly. In his mind, he's able to spin what happened into a victory and it energizes him to go out and write this list of his.

CBR: Osborn's bit of dialogue about how what's coming next is going to change the world, that’s a tease for the “Dark Reign: The List” specials?

MF: Yeah. “The List” really was born out of us asking ourselves what we would do if we were in Norman's position in the Marvel Universe. Why would you let the Hulk run around? Or why do the Fantastic Four have a portal to the heart of the Negative Zone in downtown Manhattan? We wanted Norman inspired so he goes launching out of this into “The List” and the X-Men go launching out of this into the “Nation X” storyline.

CBR: Emma Frost and Scott Summers remember another floating mutant community, the island of Genosha.

MF: It's impossible not to think about Genosha. Genosha was where Cassandra Nova sent Sentinels and they killed tons of people. So, precedent acknowledged, but this is something we've never seen before on this level. “Uncanny X-Men” is at an exciting point where I don't think it's been before. It doesn't feel like we're riffing on old plot lines. We're in this weird, virgin territory and I can't refer anymore to the “Essentials” on my bookshelf. I can't ask what happened last time they did this because there was no last time. It's as new for me as it is for Scott and everybody else.

CBR: Any final thoughts on “Exodus?”
This was big. It was the biggest thing I ever wrote. There were so many characters and so much stuff to keep track of and keep straight. At one point in the story, Pixie says, “We're all X-Men now.” And that was the point, to see every mutant working together as one. That was a blast to write and deliver with big pyrotechnics. There were a lot of plot points and pieces that had to be moved around the board to get us to this point, but I wanted to have an ending with a really big payoff.
I hope people enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it. And I hope they loved the art because I think Mike and Terry knocked it out the park.

CBR: We know from the opening pages of “Exodus” that the upcoming “Dark X-Men: The Confession” one-shot reveals some of the off-panel action that shaped this story, but where are the X-Men headed after that special? Does the story pick up in the next issue of “Uncanny X-Men?” Or “Dark Reign: The List-Uncanny X-Men?”

MF: I might be wrong but I believe “The List” special is next. “The List” issue is our first time seeing what it means for Namor to be on this island and what it means to accept Namor as a mutant. While the X-Men are a big part of the book, it really is about Norman Osborn executing a down and dirty personal revenge on Namor for his betrayal.

CBR: Whose point of view will “Dark Reign: The List-Uncanny X-Men” follow? Namor's? Or Osborn's?

MF: little bit of both. It's our first chance to see what the king of Atlantis is like in a team situation where somebody who is not Steve Rogers is giving him orders. Plus, Namor still wants to knock his bewinged boots with Emma Frost. So it's a fun, brave, and weird new world.
Then as “Nation X” starts up, we've got Magneto's return and we'll be dealing with the question of how do you live on this rock? How do you get fresh water? Where does the electricity come from? How does it stay afloat? Where do they get their food? On top of your typical mutant excitement there will be this flavor of society building. They're not living in a cushy mansion anymore.

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Relembrando Necrosha

Mensagem  leonardobento em Qua Nov 18 2009, 08:13

Segue abaixo o resumo de apresentação à Necrosha:

Spoiler:

When you survive for thousands of years in the Marvel Universe, you learn the art of patience and develop the ability to think big. The immortal psychic vampire Selene was old before the rise of civilizations like Ancient Rome and Ancient Egypt, and her current foes, the cast of "X-Force," have no idea just how big her latest villainous scheme is. They'll be the ones to confront Selene's master plan, but once it gets rolling her plot will become so large that it will spill over into the world of two other X-Men titles as well. This is the premise behind "Necrosha," a storyline which kicks off in October and runs through "X-Force," "X-Men: Legacy," and "New Mutants." CBR News spoke with writers Chris Yost, Craig Kyle, Mike Carey, and Zeb Wells about the storyline, announced today at Marvel Comics' X-Men panel at Comic-Con International in San Diego.

"Necrosha" may kick off in October, but the first seeds for the storyline were sown by Kyle and Yost in 2007's "New X-Men" #32, an issue which involved Selene and the mutant known as Wither. The next major chapter in the story came in "X-Force" #11, where the writers revealed the true identity of a character named Eli Bard, along with his connection to Selene. However, while those issues of the storyline may be pivotal chapters of the ongoing story in "X-Force," they're not necessary reads for those only interested in the "X-Men: Legacy" and "New Mutants" portions of "Necrosha." "It's not a traditional crossover in the way that 'Messiah War' [X-Force's recent crossover with 'Cable'] was," Chris Yost told CBR News. "You're not going to see 'To be continued’ in another book. It's more like the 'Morlock Massacre' storyline, where if you only read 'X-Force' you are going to get the full story."
Craig Kyle added, "We were so happy that people jumped on board when our book recently crossed over with 'Cable' and they bought an extra book that they weren't normally buying, and if you were buying 'Cable' and you weren't already buying 'X-Force,' we're thrilled you picked up our book as well. So we didn't want to hammer the fans with another story that asks them to buy other titles. The core story here is told in 'X-Force.' It's just so big that there was no way it wasn't going to touch other books. It involves such a major threat to mutantkind, that there's no way it doesn't reach out and affect other groups of characters and titles."

Kyle and Yost were very excited when they learned that Mike Carey and Zeb Wells wanted "Necrosha" to be part of the ongoing stories in their X-books. "Those guys are doing awesome jobs on their own books, and when they said they'd like to be part of the storyline, we would have been stupid to say no," Kyle remarked. "This is a major event that's going to bring a lot of much loved X-Men elements back into play, and having 'New Mutants' and 'Legacy' involved just enriches the whole experience."

Carey and Wells learned about the plans for "Necrosha" via a regular conference call that involves all of the X-Men editors and creators. "Craig Kyle and Chris Yost had already come up with the core story, but it was clear that it could be - arguably should be, enormous, spilling out from 'X-Force' to impact on other books and other characters beyond their core cast," Mike Carey explained. "There was a lot of enthusiasm from all quarters, and Craig and Chris effectively said 'Well, if anyone wants in, let us know what we can do for you.' And Zeb Wells and I both said yeah, we'd have a slice of that very scary and disturbing pie."

Zeb Wells added, "It’s just such a complex story with so many natural springboards for the 'New Mutants.' When I heard what it would allow us to accomplish in our book, I was on board."

Before the casts of "X-Force," "New Mutants" and "X-Men: Legacy" deal with the threat of "Necrosha," they must survive the current crop of dangers that are plaguing them. In "X-Force," that means dealing with the machinations of the Leper Queen, who is part of a larger conspiracy of humans infected with a techno organic virus out to exterminate mutants. They began to do this in "X-Force" #17, which is in stores now and kicked off a four part story arc titled "Not Forgotten." It’s an arc that promises to leave the team even more physically and emotionally battered than usual. "We've gotten through the portion of this series where we were planting seeds and getting stories started. Now, in this back fifteen, it's all payoff; time to find out what everything has been building towards," Craig Kyle said. "And 'Not Forgotten' is Hell on Earth. In the arc, X-Force comes back from 'Messiah War’, a mission they barely survived and a fight that wasn't theirs over a kid who may or may not be a mutant messiah. They never asked for that mission; it was forced upon them. Now they've got to get back to the mission they signed up to do.

"There are lives on the line and things are going to be relentless. Everything will be by the skin of their teeth," Kyle continued. "For 'Not Forgotten,' and really the next 11 issues after that, we'll deliver the pace, content, excitement, emotion, and humor that we spread throughout the first issues, but in a way that I think will be especially satisfying. Chris and I have worked really hard to deliver on the promises we made when we first started this book. So this is an exciting time for us."

Like previous issues of "X-Force," "Not Forgotten" will contain seeds and hints about "Necrosha." "In the second issue of 'Not Forgotten,' you'll see 'Necrosha' becoming a bigger and bigger threat," Kyle said. "As we march towards the storyline, there will be some key elements to look for, because they'll speak to how big things are quickly becoming and things will explode out of the one-shot that kicks off the story."

Chris Yost added, "The villains are very well prepared, and X-Force has kind of a hint of what's going on. They know that Eli Bard robbed the graves of Warpath's tribe, but they really have no idea what's about to hit them."

Over in "New Mutants" the title characters have their hands full with the return of Legion, a powerful mutant with multiple personality disorder, and to make matters worse, many of those personalities are psychotic. "The fight with Legion will wrap up in 'New Mutants' #4, and 'New Mutants' #5 will deal with the fallout from 'Utopia' [The current crossover between "Uncanny X-Men" and "Dark Avengers"] and give the characters a breather to figure out a bit more what their team is going to be," Zeb wells stated. "It’s drawn by Zachary Baldus, and the pages I’ve seen are incredible. He’s an original artistic voice--just great."

When "Necrosha" hits "New Mutants," the title characters will be ready-- or so it might seem at first glance. "They’ll be flying high from their first mission, and just the idea that they’re all back together," Wells explained. "This will last for approximately 3 pages before everything goes to hell again."

"X-Men: Legacy" is currently following Rogue's adventures during the "Utopia" storyline. In the most recent issue, she did battle with two members of Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers: Ares and Moonstone, who is currently posing as Ms. Marvel. That storyline finishes in August, and September sees the release of "X-Men: Legacy Annual" #1, a story which officially makes Rogue the central character of "Legacy" and establishes a new direction for her as a liaison officer with the younger generation of X-Men. "The annual kicks off an arc called 'Devil at the Crossroads,' which isn't directly connected to the events in 'Necrosha,'" Mike Carey said. "There's a tangential connection, but it's very small, almost subliminal. Necrosha is going to come up on Rogue's blind side and hit her like a bullet train."

Recent issues of "Legacy" have seen Rogue overcome some very personal struggles like mastering control of her powers and regaining the ability to touch other people. As a result, she's become a stronger perso. However, that doesn't mean that she'll be ready for what awaits her in "Necrosha." "You could say that Rogue has faced down her inner demons, both in Australia and then in San Francisco. She's stronger and more together than she's been in a long time. We've seen her fight Ms. Marvel to a draw, and hold her own against a god," Carey remarked. "But what she's faced with in 'Necrosha' isn't like a regular enemy that can be fought: it hits her on a deeper level than that, and it compromises her in unexpected ways. It's like a haunting, in some respects: you can exorcise the ghost, if you're lucky, but you also have to ask yourself what it wanted with you."

"Necrosha: X-Force/New Mutants/X-Men: Legacy," is the title of the one-shot that launches "Necrosha." The book features three different stories, each starring the respective series' characters. The "X-Force" portion of the one-shot examines both Selene's history and her larger motivations. "You're going to see Selene's journey from birth to where she's currently headed," Chris Yost explained. "I think she has her endgame in mind, but before she goes to that place she wants a little payback. Throughout her history, from Roman times all the way to her affiliation with the modern Hellfire Club, she sees people as failing her, betraying her, and letting her down in her quest. These people might not even know they did, but she's going to extract a little revenge on the way to accomplishing her ultimate goal."

Kyle and Yost plan to continue their exploration of Selene as a character in the subsequent "X-Force" issues of Necrosha. "We always enjoyed Emma Frost from her Hellfire Club days, but when Grant Morrison brought her into the X-Men fold, we felt she really shined as a character. We've always looked at Selene as a character that had all that potential too," Craig Kyle said. "As Chris mentioned, people have failed her, betrayed her and stood in her way, and this is the time where you'll finally see her hit the heights of greatness that she was destined for. If we can get Selene anywhere near what Emma has become and show that's she's an equal and opposite to the White Queen, that will be the real success of the storyline, because the Hellfire Club has always been rich with great characters. Emma's proved that and now it's time for Selene to try and hit those same heights."

The title, "Necrosha," gives some hints as to what Selene's master plan is, and another hint was dropped in "X-Force" #11. "In that issue, we showed that Selene previously had a plan to sacrifice the entire population of Ancient Rome, reap their souls, take that power and use it to become a goddess. As she she's gone on in her life, she's found souls that are a little richer and have more power to them - those are mutants," Yost said. "So she's put two and two together, and when Eli Bard comes to her with the gift of techno-organic life, the wheels start to turn."

Thematically the "X-Force" installments of "Necrosha" will be similar to other storylines in that series. "Much like our entire run on 'X-Force,' this the X-Men's past coming back to bite them in the ass," Yost remarked. "This is all the old ghosts and all the things that were forgotten coming back. The past never stays dead. Issue #1 featured the return of the villain Bastion and the resurrection of the 'Humanati.’ This is really kind of a horrific continuation of all of that."

Mike Choi and Sandra Oback are providing the art for the current "Not Forgotten" arc in "X-Force," so the art duties for the "Necrosha" portion of the series will be handled by the other part of the book's rotating artistic team, Clayton Crain. "We've seen some of the covers he did for 'Necrosha.' We've been sitting on them for months now and it's been killing us," Kyle stated. "And we're so excited to see him bring that same kind of feel into the issues themselves. It's also great because we started this journey with Clayton [Crain drew "Angels and Demons," the first arc of "X-Force"], so to have him come in and do one of the biggest storylines in our run is just awesome. The guy is just so talented. What we've seen has been extraordinary, and we're desperate for fans to see it."

In the "New Mutants" portion of "Necrosha," Zeb Wells will haunt his protagonists with malevolent visions of their past. The writer also plans on touching on the relationship between Selene and team member Magma, AKA Amara Aquilla ."Selene and her relationship with Amara definitely drives the action, but they won’t be fighting her directly. We wanted to keep these stories self-contained, so we could all keep our focus on our characters and their reactions to 'Necrosha,'" Wells remarked."No one will feel ripped off when they see who the New Mutants’ adversaries are, though."

Horror will be a significant element in the tone of all the stories that make up "Necrosha," especially the portion featured in "New Mutants." "It’s going to take place over one terrifying night," Wells hinted. "It’s going to be intense on a personal level for each one of the characters, and it’s going to be disturbing enough to earn its October launch date."

Bringing to the life all the horror in Wells’s story is artist Diogenes Neves, who is currently collaborating with Wells on the opening arc of "New Mutants." "I can’t wait for him to start," Wells stated. "His pages for 'New Mutants’ #4 look amazing."

The "X-Men: Legacy" portion of "Necrosha" also deals with a haunting, a literal one in this case. "It's Rogue getting a message from beyond the grave, which sounds very cod-Gothic - but because of the message and the messenger, it's not at all like that," Mike Carey explained. "It's a story with a lot of different pay-offs and reveals."

"X-Men: Legacy Annual" #1 pits Rogue against the machinations of Emplate, but for "Necrosha," she'll be tangling with another villain. "You'd imagine Emplate would have come along if he was invited - it's his kind of show," Carey said. "Selene is the big adversary, but Rogue never faces her directly: what she's facing is someone whose agenda is kind of at right angles to Selene's, but who is able to leapfrog off the back of Selene's plan. I don't want to spoil who that might be, but let's just say that if Rogue were to ask 'Who goes there, friend or foe?' the answer would be 'Both.'"

Gambit, Danger, and some of the other core X-Men cast will play supporting roles in Carey's "Necrosha" story, as well as some of the kids she interacts with in her new role within the X-Men. "This will wrench her away from those duties. Some of the students she's been working with will try to intervene, but there's a limit to what they can do - and they have no idea of what the risks are," Carey said. "The tone is pretty dark, and the scope is both personal and vast: personal to Rogue, enormous in terms of the potential implications for the X-Men."

While the outcome of "Necrosha" is bound to have ripples throughout the X-Men’s corner of the Marvel Universe, it’s up to fans to decide how much they want to invest in the storyline, and all the writers involved have enjoyed telling their stories with that idea in mind. "It's not a regular crossover, that's true - although having said that, I think the X-Men are constantly redefining what 'crossover’ means," Mike Carey said. "In 'Necrosha,' it's like Pandora's box has been opened and the consequences spread out like shockwaves: the New Mutants have their piece of it to deal with, and Rogue has hers, but it's all arising as a by-product of this one huge and terrifying thing that's happening in 'X-Force.' You could conceivably read the 'Legacy’ portion of the story without touching the others, but I'm guessing that people will want to know how this thing happened.
"It’s just a great piece of synergy, to use that over-burdened word. Kyle and Yost's story is crazy cool in itself, and opened up all kinds of windows of opportunity for the other X-books," Carey continued. "It's fantastic when that happens: when the momentum of one book gives a boost and a body spin to a bunch of others."

Craig Kyle added, "It’s not about book sales or numbers. It’s about the experience being so huge that it just takes more bodies to get it finished. I think that’s going to continue, and hopefully in a way that fans love and get excited about it. With our work on the X-Men, Chris I have always been about bringing back what was lost and awesome into play. We’ve done our fair share of killing, and we felt it was in the best interest of the X-books to do what we did. Now we’re bringing back the threats and the characters that we feel are crucial for the X-Men to be as awesome as they’ve ever been, and hopefully the fans will agree. I think the stories themselves and the beautiful artwork that’s going into 'Necrosha' will be worth heading to your shop and taking a look at. We’re just desperate for you guys and girls to see this stuff. The wait is killing us."

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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  leonardobento em Dom Nov 22 2009, 13:38

E aí, quem vai participar do debate hoje?

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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  Bolivartrask em Dom Nov 22 2009, 18:20

leonardobento escreveu:E aí, quem vai participar do debate hoje?

Opa.. tou nessa !!

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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  DanReztek em Dom Nov 22 2009, 18:23

leonardobento escreveu:E aí, quem vai participar do debate hoje?

Conte comigo! cheers
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Re: Mutação em Debate #2 - Novidades nos Estados Unidos

Mensagem  leonardobento em Dom Nov 22 2009, 20:15

Segue a transcrição integral do segundo debate:

Spoiler:

[20:24:35] @ leonardobento : ola pessoal
[20:24:38] @ leonardobento : temos um quorum bom
[20:24:46] @ leonardobento : todos ai prontos?
[20:25:05] Bolivartrask : prontos
[20:25:19] Bolivartrask : pelo menos eu tou >.<
[20:25:21] @ leonardobento : antes de começar
[20:25:26] @ leonardobento : o midg4rd tem alguns recados
[20:27:51] @ Midg4rd : Bom, galera...pra dar uma agitada no fórum fizemos uma promoção onde o prêmio são camisetas personalizadas do Mutação.
[20:28:04] DanReztek : ok!
[20:28:11] @ leonardobento : eu já tenho a minha
[20:28:12] @ leonardobento : e é linda
[20:28:17] @ Midg4rd : até o presente momento não tivemos participantes e está muito fácil de ganha-lás
[20:28:24] @ leonardobento : e a promoção é mto tranquila
[20:28:35] @ Midg4rd : os interessados podem acompanhar as tarefas através do link a seguir:
[20:28:43] @ Midg4rd : http://mutacao.forumeiro.com/promocoes-f24/promocao-camiseta-x-t89.htm
[20:29:27] @ leonardobento : a primeira tarefa é simplesmente trazer um amigo pra participar ativamente do forum
[20:29:31] @ Midg4rd : Espeoro que participem. Dado recado, agora passo a bola pro Leo
[20:29:35] @ leonardobento : chamem seus conhecidos de outros foruns
[20:29:41] @ leonardobento : é isso, pessoal
[20:29:48] @ leonardobento : a primeira pergunta é aquela básica:
[20:29:57] @ leonardobento : vocês estão acompanhando a atual fase dos x-men?
[20:30:06] @ leonardobento : leram o cross com os Dark Avengers?
[20:30:10] @ leonardobento : Estão lendo Necrosha?
[20:30:12] Bolivartrask : Eu estou sim.
[20:30:20] @ leonardobento : Leram Guerra de Messias?
[20:30:59] @ leonardobento : essas três histórias serão o centro do debate hoje e, no final, espero que tenhamos boas ideias sobre como será o final da trilogia do Messias: Second Coming
[20:31:13] @ leonardobento : vamos começar do ponto em que paramos no Mutação em Debate #1
[20:31:24] @ leonardobento : os X-Men estão agora em São Francisco
[20:31:36] @ leonardobento : um lugar famoso por acolher as minorias
[20:31:57] DanReztek : li tudo isso sim, exceto por Guerra de Messias q só li uma edição
[20:32:35] @ leonardobento : só que os humanos extremistas não vão deixar que isso sejaum mar de tranquilidades
[20:32:46] @ leonardobento : Simon Trask
[20:32:52] @ leonardobento : (pensei na hora em Simon Bolivar quando eu li)
[20:32:56] @ leonardobento : reune um grupo de humanos
[20:33:07] @ leonardobento : que marcham de Sacramento até Sao Francisco
[20:33:33] @ leonardobento : para apoiar a Proposição X
[20:33:43] @ leonardobento : que pretende controlar a procriação dos mutantes
[20:34:03] @ leonardobento : alguns mutantes, entre eles o Fera, impedem o curso da marcha
[20:34:05] @ leonardobento : começam os motins
[20:34:20] @ leonardobento : qual a percepção de vcs sobre o começo do cross?
[20:34:44] Bolivartrask : é.. essa parte da porradaria humano e mutante..
[20:34:59] Bolivartrask : eu partiularmente achei bem forçada
[20:35:58] Bolivartrask : tudo bem.. acho bem legal o pessoal nao conseguir conter o povo, revoltado .... mas eles já porraram exercitos de ninjas, monstros, bichos poderosos sem tanta baixa pro lado dos mutantes
[20:36:29] Bolivartrask : sabe... eles acabaram de enfrentar hordas de super-skrulls, super numa boa..
[20:37:06] @ leonardobento : ?
[20:37:17] Bolivartrask : ninhada, etc... agora com um bando de humano eles tem dificuldade de se organizar e conte-los.
[20:37:17] @ leonardobento : sim
[20:37:28] @ leonardobento : e fora que tinha gente participando dos motins, como o mancha solar
[20:37:35] @ leonardobento : que ja deixou de ser garoto esquentado
[20:37:39] @ leonardobento : já foi lorde imperial
[20:37:45] @ leonardobento : e hj ta na formação dos novos mutantes
[20:37:56] @ leonardobento : vc acha q ele desrespeitaria o toque de recolher assim?
[20:38:10] @ leonardobento : achei uma grande descaracterização, pois ele deixou de ser assim ha algum tempo
[20:38:10] Bolivartrask : é.. tb acho estranho..
[20:38:18] @ Midg4rd : analisando as coisas de maneira fria, trazendo um pouco pro real...os humanos são perigosos pra cacilda
[20:38:20] Bolivartrask : outra contradição do mancha solar foi que ...
[20:38:58] Bolivartrask : ele voou nessa saga, e nas historias dos novos mutantes dava a entender que ele nao tinha mais a habilidade de voar
[20:39:23] @ leonardobento : eu nao lembrava disso
[20:39:38] @ leonardobento : mas pq ele teria perdido a habilidade?
[20:39:41] Bolivartrask : parece que foi decidido que ele pode voar sim.. só nao voou quando precisou na revistas dos NM pq tinha o Missil para carrega-lo o.O
[20:40:13] @ leonardobento : oufoi uma evolução do poder do personagem
[20:40:17] @ leonardobento : no começo, nos anos 80, ele nao podia
[20:40:32] @ leonardobento : mas depois, com todo aquele rolo de Cólera na X-Force, quem sabe houve uma evolução da habilidade
[20:40:37] Bolivartrask : entao.. ele passou a poder durante os anos 90..
[20:40:38] @ leonardobento : mas não sou especialista nisso
[20:40:39] Bolivartrask : isso
[20:40:43] @ leonardobento : pq saiu pouco no Brasil nessa fase
[20:40:48] @ leonardobento : e eu não li o título americano
[20:40:59] @ leonardobento : voltando ao cross
[20:41:08] @ leonardobento : temos também um pacto entre Norman e Emma
[20:41:08] Bolivartrask : na verdade em nenhum momento diz que ele perdeu o dom.. mas a ideia do escritor da revista era retornar as antigas ,
[20:41:12] @ leonardobento : que vem da Cabala
[20:41:19] @ leonardobento : formada após a Invasão Secreta
[20:41:28] @ leonardobento : o acordo era que Norman não mexeria na questão mutante
[20:41:29] Bolivartrask : e quando ele precisou voar, o sam que o carregou.. ele nao voou por ele mesmo
[20:41:36] @ leonardobento : Soluções Mutantes para Problemas Mutantes era o lema
[20:41:57] @ leonardobento : com as coisas esquentando em S Francisco
[20:42:02] @ leonardobento : Emma foi atrás de Norman
[20:42:08] @ leonardobento : parapedir que ele cumprisse a promessa
[20:42:13] @ leonardobento : e deixasse que ela cuidasse de td
[20:42:24] @ leonardobento : assim, foi montado um grupo mutante sob às ordens de Norman
[20:42:28] @ leonardobento : os Dark X-Men
[20:42:46] @ leonardobento : primeiramente: vcs achavam, enquanto liam, que Emma estava traindo os X-Men e se aliando a Osborn?
[20:42:51] @ Midg4rd : mas pelo que to lendo aqui a Emma faz um jogo duplo
[20:44:22] @ leonardobento : sim
[20:44:26] @ leonardobento : mas na hora q liam
[20:44:35] @ leonardobento : ficaram com medo de ela estar traindo os x-men?
[20:46:01] Bolivartrask : eu nao
[20:46:10] Bolivartrask : heheh ja tou calejado : D
[20:46:17] @ Midg4rd : sinceramente não...não creio que alguém se atreveria a dar esse "perfil" pra Emma nos quadrinhos
[20:46:27] Bolivartrask : ja imaginava isso
[20:46:42] @ leonardobento : e ela cumpriu bem o papel, não?
[20:46:43] Bolivartrask : na verdade, nao é a primeira vez que tentam usa-la como traidora dos x-men..
[20:46:45] @ leonardobento : convenceu norman
[20:46:51] @ leonardobento : ao mesmo tempo em que trouxe namor parao seu lado
[20:47:00] DanReztek foi desconectado o Dom Nov 22, 2009 8:47 pm (seção timeout)
[20:47:02] @ leonardobento : o que lhe daria uma vantagem na hora em que a traição se revelasse
[20:47:28] DanReztek se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 8:47 pm
[20:47:29] DanReztek se desconectou dia Dom Nov 22, 2009 8:47 pm
[20:47:51] DanReztek se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 8:47 pm
[20:48:24] @ leonardobento : e o que acharam da equipe dos dark x-men?
[20:48:30] DanReztek : de início eu até achei q ela poderia estar traindo, mas ficava difícil acreditar pois ela teria q ter um motivo muito forte pra trair os X-men
[20:48:31] @ leonardobento : em beginning, temos o recrutamento deles
[20:48:40] Bolivartrask : exato, ela manipulou todos, como ela sempre soube fazer muito bem
[20:48:51] @ leonardobento : a maior parte deles coagida a entrar por norman
[20:49:00] @ leonardobento : o grpo fatalmente tendia ao fracasso
[20:49:30] Bolivartrask : exato.. aquela formacao tinha data marcada pra acabar.. nao tinha como se manter
[20:49:58] @ leonardobento : mas, individualmente, foram boas aquisições
[20:50:00] @ leonardobento : não?
[20:50:07] @ leonardobento : chegaram a dar trabalho
[20:50:27] Bolivartrask : com certeza...
[20:50:32] @ Midg4rd : convehamos...uma party bem sem sal
[20:50:39] @ leonardobento : as coisas pioraram pros x-men
[20:50:51] @ leonardobento : quando norman trouxe os dark avengers pra sao francisco
[20:50:56] Bolivartrask : nao gostei de como interpretaram o daken.. nao é o manipulador inteligente que mostram nas outras revistas
[20:51:00] @ leonardobento : ou seja, daken, mercenario, venom
[20:51:08] @ leonardobento : ares e sentinela
[20:51:09] @ leonardobento : ou seja
[20:51:15] @ leonardobento : uma grande equipe para enfrentar os x-men
[20:51:36] DanReztek : eu gosto da mística e do Fera Negro, dos outros nem tanto...
[20:52:07] @ leonardobento : scott, contudo, tinha um bom plano
[20:52:21] @ leonardobento : enquanto o x-club tentava emergir o asteroide m
[20:52:27] @ leonardobento : ele dividiu as funções da equipe
[20:52:35] @ leonardobento : fez com que os x-men estudassem seus adversários
[20:52:39] @ leonardobento : contou com a traição da emma
[20:52:46] @ leonardobento : que trouxe namor, manto e adaga para seu lado
[20:52:59] @ leonardobento : colocou a x-force na parada
[20:53:09] @ Midg4rd : tudo isso usando a forma da Jean?
[20:53:15] @ leonardobento : e a dani moonstar fez um pacto com a hela para conseguir temporariamente os poderes de valquiria
[20:53:28] @ leonardobento : Midg4rd, não entendi
[20:53:40] @ leonardobento : forma da jean?
[20:54:31] Piotr se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 8:54 pm
[20:54:50] Piotr : meus amigos
[20:54:52] Piotr : em que edição
[20:54:59] Piotr : danielle moonstar, fez o pacto?
[20:55:13] @ leonardobento : se eu nao me engano em dark avengers 8
[20:55:18] @ leonardobento : a 5ª edição do cross
[20:55:24] @ leonardobento : e eu acho q foi bem forçado
[20:55:28] Piotr : eu tenho, mas nao me lembro, vou reler
[20:55:34] @ leonardobento : fora q o fraction fez sem consultar o wells, escritor de novos mutantes
[20:55:38] Piotr : haha, to em época de prova, minha mae vai me matar, e eu lendo utopia*-*
[20:55:39] @ leonardobento : tanto q ele nao cita q é provisório
[20:55:43] @ leonardobento : mas em novos mutantes, ficamos sabendo q foi
[20:55:52] @ leonardobento : ou seja, o wells nao pretendia ter uma dani forte na equipe
[20:55:57] @ leonardobento : e desfez o q o fraction fez
[20:56:07] Piotr : isso eu lembro
[20:56:33] Bolivartrask : é.. ficou clara aí uma falta de comunicacao entre eles
[20:56:51] DanReztek : essa parte do Scott planejando tudo direitinho pra enfrentar os Dark-teams eu até gostei, mas os embates ficaram muito resumidos, dois ou três quadrinhos e terminava, às vezes sem ficar explicado c
[20:56:57] @ leonardobento : exatamente
[20:57:10] @ leonardobento : aham
[20:57:13] @ leonardobento : eram mtas lutas
[20:57:16] Bolivartrask : e po.. escrever uma personagem que é mais forte q o Ares é complicado.. ela ia ficar mais poderosa que todo mundo
[20:57:18] @ leonardobento : entao ficou td no subentendido
[20:57:23] @ leonardobento : nada ficou explicito
[20:57:34] @ leonardobento : e o q acharam do final?
[20:57:48] @ leonardobento : a lição de moral q o scott deu no norman em frente às cameras?
[20:57:53] Piotr : eu gostei, em parte
[20:58:02] DanReztek : mas ficou o cavalo alado da Dani ainda como "sequela" né
[20:58:08] @ leonardobento : aham
[20:58:15] @ leonardobento : ele permaneceu com ela
[20:58:18] Piotr : achei que devia ser mais profundo, algo não tão reversivel
[20:58:19] Bolivartrask : é hehe
[20:58:39] @ leonardobento : mas, se pensarmos q foi um pacto
[20:58:40] Piotr : o fora foi legal, mas eu nao sei explicar o que faltou no final
[20:58:46] @ leonardobento : algo q ela terá q "pagar" em troca no futuro
[20:58:51] @ leonardobento : da pra entender q seria temporaria
[20:58:57] @ leonardobento : eu gostei do final
[20:58:59] Bolivartrask : o que nao gostei do fim da saga é que eles mal chegaram em SF e ja saem
[20:59:08] @ leonardobento : o norman agiu como se tivesse vencido, isolando os x-men na ilha
[20:59:14] @ leonardobento : e o scott conseguiu unir os mutantes
[20:59:27] @ leonardobento : e impedir que osborn tivesse jurisdição sobre a questão mutante
[21:01:32] Piotr : terei de sair, perdão, mas to em semana de prova
[21:01:34] Piotr : até breve
[21:01:49] @ leonardobento : blz, mto obrigado, piotr
[21:01:59] @ leonardobento : e ai, pessoal, alguma consideração final sobre Utopia?
[21:02:05] @ leonardobento : o proximo tema será Guerra de Messias
[21:02:08] Bolivartrask : Boas provas Piotr
[21:02:38] Bolivartrask : entao.. foi mais uma saga pra udar o status da equipe
[21:02:42] Bolivartrask : mudar
[21:02:53] Bolivartrask : assim como todas que acontecem
[21:02:55] @ leonardobento : mudar em que sentido?
[21:03:30] Bolivartrask : oras.. a criacao da nation X, etc
[21:03:57] @ leonardobento : exatamente
[21:04:10] @ leonardobento : e agora temos magneto se ajoelhando perante ao scott
[21:04:12] @ leonardobento : o q achou disso?
[21:04:19] Bolivartrask : as coisas acontecem e mudam sem conseguirem explora-las,,, sempre querem mexer com tudo pra estimular venda
[21:04:37] DanReztek : acho q foi bom no final, os X-men saíram, senão vitoriosos, mas pelo menos fortalecidos
[21:04:46] Bolivartrask : poxa.. achei forçado pra caramba.. na boa.. eu odeio o Fraction tsts
[21:04:54] @ leonardobento : uhauhahuah
[21:05:14] @ leonardobento : mas vc nao acha q o scott junto o idealismo do xavier com o pragmatismo do magneto?
[21:05:19] @ leonardobento : ele nao é o lider ideal pra especie?
[21:05:23] @ leonardobento : eu acho q sim
[21:05:26] @ leonardobento : ele foi treinado pra isso
[21:05:28] @ leonardobento : e agora q está pronto
[21:05:34] @ leonardobento : o xavier nao quer largar o osso
[21:05:43] @ leonardobento : mas o magneto reconhece que o ciclope carrega uma causa
[21:05:46] @ leonardobento : que une os mutantes
[21:05:51] @ leonardobento : e por isso está na posição em q esta
[21:05:53] Bolivartrask : O Ciclope ta sendo usado como um "hiper strategista", nao tem plano algum mas no fim sepre ta com a razao. o.O
[21:06:26] Bolivartrask : cara,, o magneto ja fez muito mais que o ciclope ta fazendo
[21:06:29] @ leonardobento : sim, ele está por trás de td
[21:06:34] @ leonardobento : da x-force, dos x-men, da ilha
[21:06:43] @ leonardobento : já fez mto mais, mas nao com tanto apoio, entende?
[21:06:57] Bolivartrask : e diz "enquanto eu e xavier ficavamos brincando em gato e rato, vc veio e fez algo relevante para os mutantes"
[21:07:05] @ leonardobento : e não com o status que o ciclope tem - status no sentido de que, para a comunidade de super-herois, ele éum heroi
[21:07:18] @ leonardobento : entao vingadores, quarteto, aranha, ngm vai contestar o q ele faz
[21:07:19] Bolivartrask : como assim?? magneto liderou genosha.. um pais com 16.000 habitantes mutantes
[21:07:20] @ leonardobento : e se colocar de frente
[21:07:47] Bolivartrask : como assim ele ajoalher ao ciclope como se ele tivesse feito mais que o Magnus
[21:07:56] @ leonardobento : mas bolivar, quem eram esses mutantes?
[21:07:58] @ leonardobento : entende o meju ponto
[21:08:10] Midg4rd foi desconectado o Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:08 pm (seção timeout)
[21:08:10] @ leonardobento : era um povo sofrido... ele é manipulador de massas
[21:08:12] @ leonardobento : populista
[21:08:22] @ leonardobento : nao é o q é o scott hj
[21:08:24] DanReztek : talvez o Magneto esteja querendo se unir ao Scott para esperear uma chance de poder tomar seu lugar um dia
[21:08:56] DanReztek : já q o Scott parece estar mentalmente desgastado
[21:09:03] Bolivartrask : ciclope lidera menos de 200 mutantes ..
[21:09:21] @ leonardobento : mas se somarmos as coisas em questao de poder
[21:09:26] @ leonardobento : temos alguns dos mais poderosos com ele
[21:09:33] @ leonardobento : grande parte dos Doze
[21:09:53] @ leonardobento : magneto liderou genosha, mas o q aconteceu?
[21:09:57] @ leonardobento : mesmo com 16 milhões, eles foram mortos
[21:10:01] @ leonardobento : pela cassandra nova
[21:10:06] @ leonardobento : e os x-men conseguiram contê-la
[21:10:14] @ leonardobento : e os x-men do scott
[21:10:24] @ leonardobento : logo... eles têm mto mérito sim
[21:12:07] @ leonardobento : comentarios finais sobre utopia e nation x??
[21:13:03] Bolivartrask : bom.. meu comentario é que
[21:13:24] Bolivartrask : acho que deveriam explorar mais os coadjuvantes em nation X
[21:13:35] Bolivartrask : podia ser o carey na sua legacy
[21:13:55] Bolivartrask : fazer historias solos, cada legacy mostrava como era a vida lá dentro da nation X
[21:14:08] @ leonardobento : acho q ele esta tentandoo isso agora
[21:14:15] @ leonardobento : mas teremos os coadjuvantes na mini
[21:14:16] Bolivartrask : a profissao deles.. como a sociedade funcionava ali
[21:14:18] @ leonardobento : nation x
[21:14:30] @ leonardobento : essa e a ideia da mini
[21:14:50] Roberto Sobrinho se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:14 pm
[21:15:00] Bolivartrask : é verdade.. tinah equecido dela
[21:15:23] Bolivartrask : espero que explorem bem isso... acho muito mais interessante que mais megasagas
[21:15:27] @ leonardobento : bom, proximo tema é guerra de messias
[21:15:33] @ leonardobento : vcs leram?
[21:15:53] Bolivartrask : sabe.. explorar bem o que tem.. mostrara o status de cada um lá.. como eles interagem, como eles vivem...
[21:16:03] Bolivartrask : Li.
[21:16:19] @ leonardobento : o que achou?
[21:16:23] DanReztek : vamos ver qual será o papel de mutantes poderosos q tem um ego pesado como caracteristica vão se comportar vivendo todos em um mesmo lugar. Magneto, Charles, Namor...
[21:16:24] @ leonardobento : achei fraca, eu esperava mais
[21:16:27] @ leonardobento : colocou apenas dois titulos
[21:16:33] @ leonardobento : em questão
[21:16:35] Piotr foi desconectado o Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:16 pm (seção timeout)
[21:16:49] @ leonardobento : mas pelo menos trabalharam alguns vilões importantes
[21:16:56] Roberto Sobrinho : olaa, eu sou novo aqui no forum e eu to começando a ler X-men agora, e eu queria saber se eu q nunca li os x-men poderia começar pela saga Dinastia M q eu ouvi dizer q é mto importante pro Univer
[21:16:59] @ leonardobento : em um futuro interessante
[21:17:13] @ leonardobento : oi, roberto,
[21:17:21] @ leonardobento : pode começar sim, pois essa saga determinou os rumos
[21:17:24] @ leonardobento : até agora
[21:17:26] Bolivartrask : ola roberto
[21:17:31] @ leonardobento : se vc pegar pelos resuminhos dos debates
[21:17:36] @ leonardobento : que estão na pasta especifica
[21:17:42] Roberto Sobrinho : oi leo e bolivar
[21:17:48] @ leonardobento : vc pode seguir a ordem de leitura e ir atras das revistas
[21:17:55] @ leonardobento : minha dica é ler as revistas do blog X-Men Blog
[21:18:02] @ leonardobento : www.xmen-blog.blogspot.com
[21:18:16] Roberto Sobrinho : mas quais sao essas pastas?
[21:18:27] DanReztek : não me empolgou a estória, li só a primeira edição, depois larguei e agora q já vi o resumo nem dá vontade ler ler o q falta, apesar de q ainda vou ler de qualquer jeito...
[21:18:59] @ leonardobento : comece pelos antecedentes: http://mutacao.forumeiro.com/mutacao-em-debate-f22/mutacao-em-debate-1-destino-manifesto-t66.htm
[21:19:15] @ leonardobento : no final, temos hope e cable seguindo pra outro futuro
[21:19:20] @ leonardobento : a x-force voltando ao presente
[21:19:22] Roberto Sobrinho : mas eu tenho q ler todas as HQs desse blog?
[21:19:28] @ leonardobento : e bishop segue atrás de hope e cable
[21:19:34] @ leonardobento : após ter se aliado a conflyto para derrotá-los
[21:19:45] @ leonardobento : Roberto, não precisa ser todas
[21:20:10] @ leonardobento : se vc quiser, te mando uma msg depois, aqui pelo forum, com as q eu considero relevante
[21:20:46] @ leonardobento : comece a ler os topicos de todo o site
[21:20:47] Roberto Sobrinho : hmmm pode ser entao
[21:20:48] @ leonardobento : para ir se inteirando
[21:20:58] Bolivartrask : isso.. podemos criar um topico mostranho uma ronologia a ser seguida
[21:21:04] Bolivartrask : mostrando
[21:21:10] Bolivartrask : cronologia
[21:21:13] @ leonardobento : sim, tem algo legal assim no x-men brasil
[21:21:16] @ leonardobento : vc pode procurar lá, bolivar?
[21:21:36] Bolivartrask : tem na soquadrinhos tb
[21:21:50] Bolivartrask : sugiro pegarmos as duas, juntarmos e melhorar ; )
[21:22:08] @ leonardobento : otimo!
[21:22:13] Roberto Sobrinho : mas é q é mta coisa pra ler né? E eu queria começar de alguma revista q eu coseguisse entender, mesmo nao tenho lido as antecedentes...
[21:22:32] Roberto Sobrinho : nao tendo lido*
[21:22:35] @ leonardobento : que tal a partir de complexo de messiaspra ele?
[21:23:49] @ leonardobento : e necrosha, quem está lendo?
[21:24:11] BlackSkull se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:24 pm
[21:24:20] BlackSkull : saudações
[21:24:40] @ leonardobento : td bem, black skull?
[21:24:46] BlackSkull : otimo
[21:24:46] @ leonardobento : estamos encerrando a discussão sobre guerra de messias
[21:24:50] @ leonardobento : e vamos começar sobre necrosha
[21:24:56] @ leonardobento : vc está lendo?
[21:24:58] Bolivartrask : é olha roberto.. acho que a partir de complexo de messias é melhor
[21:25:00] BlackSkull : necrossshhaaaa
[21:25:11] Roberto Sobrinho : será q seria bom se qu começasse a ler a partir de Dinastia M, depois Especie em Extinção e complexo de missias?
[21:25:13] Bolivartrask : a partir da Dinastia M seria mais completo.. mas é muita coisa
[21:25:18] BlackSkull : espero muito dessa saga
[21:25:29] @ leonardobento : eu tb e estou gostando do q estou lendo
[21:25:31] Bolivartrask : melhor é.
[21:25:51] BlackSkull : não gostei muito da ultima legacy
[21:25:58] @ leonardobento : alem disso, espero ansioso pra saber
[21:26:04] @ leonardobento : se teremos mortes relvantes
[21:26:04] BlackSkull : mas new mutants e x-force detonam
[21:26:21] @ leonardobento : e se alguns dos mortos ficarão 'vivos' depois
[21:26:42] @ leonardobento : mas a legacy so entra em necrosha daqui a algumas edições
[21:26:52] @ leonardobento : qndo acabar esse arco ligado a nation x e ao empata
[21:27:09] BlackSkull : então
[21:27:16] Roberto Sobrinho : valeu pessoal pela ajuda o/
[21:27:25] Bolivartrask : de nafa
[21:27:32] BlackSkull : essa parte do cifra ter voltado acho que ele é um dos que fica
[21:27:40] @ leonardobento : tb acho
[21:27:47] @ leonardobento : o warlock tb vai sobreviver
[21:27:48] Bolivartrask : com certeza ele fica
[21:27:49] BlackSkull : e o circulo interno da selene
[21:27:51] @ leonardobento : pq estána capa de novos mutantes10
[21:27:55] BlackSkull : muito bom
[21:27:56] @ leonardobento : que sai em fevereiro
[21:27:56] Bolivartrask : vai.. sem duvida
[21:28:00] Roberto Sobrinho : acho q vou começar lendo pro dinatia m
[21:28:07] @ leonardobento : e eu nao esperava uma traição dessa do decompositor
[21:28:13] @ leonardobento : po, ele foi um novo mutante da moonstar
[21:28:16] BlackSkull : roberto, começe e ler a partir de SFX
[21:28:17] @ leonardobento : nao podia ajuda rtanto a selene
[21:28:26] BlackSkull : otimo ponto de partida
[21:28:31] Bolivartrask : beleza Sobrinho.. vou ver se crio um resumo da ordem desde a dinastia
[21:28:40] Bolivartrask : e posto aqui no forum
[21:28:48] Roberto Sobrinho : SFX??
[21:28:59] @ leonardobento : x-men em sao francisco
[21:28:59] BlackSkull : o wither acho que vai aprontar alguma a ela
[21:29:02] @ leonardobento : destino manifesto
[21:29:15] Roberto Sobrinho : vai ser bom Bolivar!
[21:29:43] @ leonardobento : e vcs acham q o banshee nao podia ficar?
[21:29:54] @ leonardobento : ele até q recuperou a consciencia na ultima edição, por alguns instantes
[21:29:57] Bolivartrask : beleza... mas quero todos ajudando pq arrumar isso vai ser dificil ehhehe
[21:30:16] Bolivartrask : acho que o Banshee nao faz falta
[21:30:53] Roberto Sobrinho se desconectou dia Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:30 pm
[21:31:29] BlackSkull : acho que quem morre tem q continuar morto
[21:31:50] @ leonardobento : eu tb acho q sim
[21:31:56] @ leonardobento : e foi anunciado q alguem da x-force vai morrer
[21:31:59] @ leonardobento : quem vcs acham q é?
[21:32:04] @ leonardobento : eu espero q seja o vanisher
[21:32:09] BlackSkull : e noto que esses undead da selene tem consiencia
[21:32:11] @ leonardobento : mas nao descarto mortes de lupina, elixir e apache
[21:32:18] Bolivartrask : aahh eu nao queria que fosse o vanisher
[21:32:22] BlackSkull : acho que é a lupina
[21:32:25] @ leonardobento : se o apache morrer pelas mãos do irmao dele, q voltou agora com a selene, ia ser uma cena mto foda
[21:32:25] @ leonardobento : se o apache morrer pelas mãos do irmao dele, q voltou agora com a selene, ia ser uma cena mto foda
[21:32:44] DanReztek : wolverine é intocável, todos sabem
[21:32:49] BlackSkull : não morrendo a domino nem a x-23 pra mim tá otimo
[21:32:50] Bolivartrask : é mesmo
[21:33:20] Bolivartrask : nao sei quem deveria morrer lá
[21:33:32] Bolivartrask : mas acho q tinha que ser alguem bem importante
[21:33:39] Bolivartrask : sabe.. pra chocar
[21:33:48] @ leonardobento : a sleene conseguiu reviver os 16 milhoes de mortos em genosha
[21:33:49] Bolivartrask : CARACA.. mateui a charada!!!
[21:33:50] BlackSkull : a pior perda é o yost e o kyle que vão sair do titulo
[21:33:55] @ leonardobento : como será q os x-men vao conseguir derrota-los?
[21:34:00] Bolivartrask : ja sei quem vai morrer
[21:34:08] BlackSkull : quem vai morrer?
[21:34:23] Bolivartrask : ai.. certeza absoluta.. quem vai morrer é a X23
[21:34:31] @ leonardobento : eu acho q deve ter algo a ver com o eli bard, parceiro dela
[21:34:37] Bolivartrask : ces todos vao se revoltar agora hehe
[21:34:37] BlackSkull : NÃOOOOOOOO!
[21:34:47] @ leonardobento : ele está dando vida ao mortos-vivos, junto com o virus tecnorganico
[21:34:48] Bolivartrask : mas faz todo sentido
[21:34:53] @ leonardobento : será q se ele morrer, isso é desfeito?
[21:35:04] Bolivartrask : os escritores q criaram ela tao saindo da revista...
[21:35:05] @ leonardobento : ja sabe como?
[21:35:14] @ leonardobento : éééé
[21:35:17] @ leonardobento : o yost q criou...
[21:35:18] @ leonardobento : ai meu deus...
[21:35:28] @ leonardobento : matem o daken, mas nao matem a laura
[21:35:39] Bolivartrask : isso.. e ele nunca deixou ninguyem colocar a mao na criacao dele
[21:35:41] BlackSkull : DROGA
[21:35:46] BlackSkull : hehehehe
[21:36:15] Bolivartrask : ele escrevia Novos X-Men e depois X-force, as revistas solos...
[21:36:18] @ leonardobento : ia ser impactante!
[21:36:20] @ leonardobento : agora eu quero ler!
[21:36:24] Bolivartrask : com certeza é ela !!
[21:36:26] @ leonardobento : mas ele saem em second coming, não?
[21:36:30] @ leonardobento : ou seja, pode ser q ela morra depoiis
[21:37:16] Bolivartrask : eles vao matar pra ninguem cagar a personagem depois
[21:37:25] @ leonardobento : pode ser mesmo
[21:37:28] @ leonardobento : eh uma pena
[21:37:32] @ leonardobento : ela eh uma otima personagem
[21:38:12] @ leonardobento : e oq vcs esperam de second coming?
[21:38:16] @ leonardobento : será o final da trilogia
[21:38:17] Bolivartrask : alan moore, neil gaiman e tantos outros ja fizeram exatamente o mesmo
[21:38:23] @ leonardobento : e será o ápice de 2010
[21:38:23] BlackSkull : acho que não
[21:38:29] BlackSkull : espero que a lupina morre
[21:38:33] @ leonardobento : meia década de x-men vão desembocar nessa históra
[21:38:39] BlackSkull : faz algum tempo que cagaram ela
[21:38:40] @ leonardobento : será q os mutantes serão salvos da extinção?
[21:39:42] Bolivartrask : é.. sem duvida.. vao ser a conclusao
[21:39:45] Bolivartrask : vai
[21:39:58] Bolivartrask : mas acho que a Hope nao vai ser a solucao
[21:40:11] Bolivartrask : ela vai ser a causa da destruição.. como o bishop dizia
[21:40:25] Bolivartrask : bishop ja deve estar morto até lá
[21:40:25] @ leonardobento : será msm?
[21:40:27] @ leonardobento : pq?
[21:40:43] Bolivartrask : só que ai, os x-men conseguem resolver e tal.. logico
[21:41:10] DanReztek : intencionalmente?
[21:41:13] Bolivartrask : bishop deve morrer no fim dessa historia do cable, eu acho
[21:41:20] @ leonardobento : mas pq será q ela sera a causa da destruição?
[21:41:35] Bolivartrask : Aí que vamos saber...
[21:41:45] Bolivartrask : mas seria uma otima se fizessem isso
[21:42:02] @ leonardobento : e a relação dela com a jean?
[21:42:07] @ leonardobento : tem alguma?
[21:42:20] Bolivartrask : egh .. nao sei.. espero qeu naos eja jean
[21:42:34] Bolivartrask : espero que eela seja a nova hospedeira da fenix..
[21:42:42] Bolivartrask : mas q nao seja a jean
[21:42:57] @ leonardobento : pode ser
[21:43:03] Bolivartrask : a jean volta sendo jean.. e hope sendo fenix.. talvez até como vilã
[21:43:05] @ leonardobento : eu esperavaq ela fosse a rachel
[21:43:12] @ leonardobento : filha de um ovo da jean
[21:43:32] @ leonardobento : tipo o q apareceu em ecos do amanha, do morrison
[21:43:53] Bolivartrask : pode ser legal ela ser a rachel da 616 tb
[21:44:31] @ leonardobento : e poderiam trazer depois os piratas siderais de volta pros x-men
[21:45:28] @ leonardobento : e a serie do cable deve acabar tb
[21:45:33] @ leonardobento : antes de second coming
[21:45:42] @ leonardobento : e vcs acham q x-force ficara como?
[21:46:26] Bolivartrask : fico preocupado como ficará a x-force
[21:46:31] @ leonardobento : os x-men ficarao sabendo deles
[21:46:35] Bolivartrask : provavelmente o cable ficara na x-force
[21:46:46] Bolivartrask : sem x-23 e com cable
[21:46:49] Roberto Sobrinho se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 9:46 pm
[21:46:56] BlackSkull : cable liderando a x-force ia ser bom
[21:47:06] BlackSkull : bem melhor que logan lider
[21:47:08] BlackSkull : hehe
[21:47:12] Bolivartrask : ficarao.. a x-force se oficializará
[21:47:40] Bolivartrask : talvez nao se entendam com os x-men.. mas os x-men sabberao da existencia deles
[21:47:43] @ leonardobento : aham
[21:47:51] @ leonardobento : mas o q os x-men vao achar disso?
[21:47:55] @ leonardobento : uma equipe extrema
[21:48:03] @ leonardobento : q tem 'licença' pra matar
[21:48:04] Bolivartrask : espero que nao gostem nada
[21:48:12] @ leonardobento : no q scott vai diferir do magneto?
[21:48:15] DanReztek : Cable já não está um tanto velho pra isso não? ou estará quando essa hora chegar
[21:48:18] Bolivartrask : e que estremeça a lideranca do ciclope
[21:48:37] @ leonardobento : o cable eh serio candidato a morrer
[21:49:01] Bolivartrask : cable é sinistro. vai viver mais que a Dercy
[21:49:22] Bolivartrask : e o roberto marinho juntos
[21:49:35] @ leonardobento : eu acho q o fera se desliga dos x-men e fica so na sword
[21:49:38] BlackSkull : hehe
[21:49:47] Bolivartrask : sim.. sem duvida
[21:49:58] BlackSkull : essa fase de exercito de mutantes ja encheu tb
[21:50:05] BlackSkull : saudade da fase australiana
[21:50:15] Bolivartrask : uhehuehuehue
[21:50:27] Bolivartrask : fase australiana first class já (mentira)
[21:50:40] @ leonardobento : eu gosto mto de x-force
[21:50:48] @ leonardobento : eh a melhor coisa da franquia hj
[21:51:04] Bolivartrask : é.. medo do proximo escritor
[21:51:05] BlackSkull : tb acho
[21:51:15] BlackSkull : fora a badtrip dos lobos
[21:51:19] Bolivartrask : quem vcs acham que seria um bom escriotor pra x-force
[21:51:20] Bolivartrask : ?
[21:51:44] BlackSkull : ou a dupla kyle/yost tem alguma coisa planejada pros lobos ou viajou mesmo
[21:51:50] DanReztek : será q cable ainda dura até se encontrar com o X-Man novamente?
[21:52:02] BlackSkull : pq gigantes do gelo atacarem a mansão do colorado foi foda
[21:52:07] @ leonardobento : poooo x-man naooo
[21:52:11] @ leonardobento : nem deveria ter voltado
[21:52:42] Bolivartrask : eh.. nadaa a ver essa volta
[21:52:45] @ leonardobento : como escritor, poderiamos ter o christos gage
[21:52:54] Bolivartrask : mas ele nem deve encher os aco.. deve ficar nos dark x-men mesmo..
[21:53:04] @ leonardobento : ele mandou bem na mini com o aranha
[21:53:04] Bolivartrask : o x-man
[21:53:17] @ leonardobento : ou a dupla cornell/kirk
[21:53:21] Bolivartrask : mandou sim!! christos cage sabe bem de cronologia
[21:53:34] @ leonardobento : que esta em dark xmen,
[21:53:44] @ leonardobento : e fizeram capitao britania
[21:53:46] Bolivartrask : nate grey nao deve mais usar o codinome x-man tb
[21:54:56] @ leonardobento : e x-factor
[21:55:17] @ leonardobento : vcs tao lendo?
[21:55:54] BlackSkull : li até a 50
[21:56:01] @ leonardobento : eu tb
[21:56:07] BlackSkull : mas esses desenhos novos não me agradaram muito não
[21:56:07] @ leonardobento : ta gostando?
[21:56:11] @ leonardobento : eu achei confuso
[21:56:19] BlackSkull : do x-factor com uniformes
[21:56:21] @ leonardobento : e nao gostei da solução
[21:56:28] @ leonardobento : que deram pra layla
[21:56:30] BlackSkull : a parte da rebelião summers foi foda
[21:56:35] @ leonardobento : virou um novelo de lã
[21:56:44] BlackSkull : ligou a ponta solta do x-men 2099
[21:57:49] @ leonardobento : nao li 2099
[21:58:03] @ leonardobento : q pontas?
[21:58:05] Bolivartrask : ponta solta do 2099.. explique-se !! huauha
[21:58:10] @ leonardobento : tinha rebeliao summers
[21:58:13] @ leonardobento : lá?
[21:58:20] Bolivartrask : nao.
[21:58:46] Bolivartrask : acho que nao há relacao nao ehehehhe sao universos completamente diferentes
[21:59:16] Bolivartrask : rebeliao summers é futuro do bishop
[21:59:24] @ leonardobento : nao entendi a questao da layla: ela voltou ao passado e passou todas as informações pra layla menor
[21:59:37] @ leonardobento : mas, meu, se a layla menor nao tivesse vivido td depois, nao teria como ir ao futuro
[21:59:48] @ leonardobento : mas ela só pôde ir ao futuro, pq tinha o conhecimento passado pela layla do futuro
[21:59:52] @ leonardobento : ou seja é um paradoxo temporal
[22:01:12] Bolivartrask : exatamente
[22:01:17] Bolivartrask : sentido nao faz..
[22:01:34] Bolivartrask : mas o Peter david vai brincar com isso.. sem duvida
[22:01:50] Roberto Sobrinho foi desconectado o Dom Nov 22, 2009 10:01 pm (seção timeout)
[22:02:00] @ leonardobento : aham
[22:02:01] Bolivartrask : nem os personagens vao ver sentido nisso.. e vao fazer alguma piada..
[22:02:08] @ leonardobento : espero q ela volte mesmo agora na nova fase do grupo, em nova iorque
[22:02:22] @ leonardobento : o david ta escrevendo mto bem
[22:02:26] Bolivartrask : queria ela pirralhinha
[22:02:27] @ leonardobento : ele se encaixa direitinho em x-factor
[22:02:30] Midg4rd se juntou ao chat de Dom Nov 22, 2009 10:02 pm
[22:02:31] @ leonardobento : desde a primeira passagem dele
[22:02:52] @ leonardobento : já são 10 horas
[22:02:58] @ leonardobento : e vamos encerrar o nosso segundo Mutação em Deabte
[22:03:02] @ leonardobento : antes disso
[22:03:08] @ leonardobento : vamos combinar o próximo debate
[22:03:18] @ leonardobento : daqui duas semanas será o dia 6 de dezembro
[22:03:24] @ leonardobento : tudo bem essa data?
[22:04:05] Bolivartrask : queria falar outra ciosa
[22:04:09] Bolivartrask : foi mal eheh
[22:04:12] @ leonardobento : claro
[22:04:13] @ leonardobento : por favor
[22:04:17] Bolivartrask : a Lupina NAO PODE MORRER
[22:04:20] @ leonardobento : estamos aqui pra debater
[22:04:23] @ leonardobento : huauhahuuhaa
[22:04:30] Bolivartrask : pq.. pq ela vai ter participacao futura em x-factor
[22:04:30] @ leonardobento : espero q ela vá pros novos mutantes!!!
[22:04:32] DanReztek : por mim td bem
[22:04:51] Bolivartrask : tipo.. lembram da previsao do futuro?
[22:05:00] Bolivartrask : que ela mata Layla e madrox quando vao se casar?
[22:05:13] DanReztek : o q? q ela mata madrox e layla?
[22:05:39] Bolivartrask : a lupina teve esse sonho
[22:05:49] @ leonardobento : sim, na previsão
[22:05:50] Bolivartrask : e saiu do x-factor em parte por causa disso..
[22:05:53] @ leonardobento : mas acho q isso pode ter mudado
[22:05:56] Bolivartrask : com medod e se descontrolar e mata-los
[22:05:57] @ leonardobento : com toda a qeustão do futuro
[22:06:04] @ leonardobento : isso pode ter alterado o q iaacontecer
[22:06:06] Bolivartrask : entao.. é claro que ela nao vai matar
[22:06:22] Bolivartrask : mas vao usar isso no futuro
[22:06:45] Bolivartrask : madrox tentará casar com layla e lupina vai quase mata-los
[22:06:56] Bolivartrask : no fim tudo fica feliz
[22:07:05] Bolivartrask : mas q vao usar esse plot, vao!
[22:07:26] Bolivartrask : por isso ela nao pode morrer.. pq tem esse plot futuro ainda
[22:07:28] @ leonardobento : espero q sim
[22:07:35] @ leonardobento : e acho q o david ficara mto tempo ainda a frente do titulo
[22:08:00] @ leonardobento : mais alguma ideia, bolivar?
[22:08:19] Bolivartrask : acho que acabou minhas previsoes futuristicas hehehehe
[22:08:37] Bolivartrask : mas elas até que elas fazem muito sentido
[22:08:46] Bolivartrask : pelo menos pra mim auhahuheruiwhiogz\swifs
[22:08:55] @ leonardobento : aham, fazem
[22:09:00] @ leonardobento : então sobre o proximo mutaçaõ em debate
[22:09:12] @ leonardobento : a data fica dia 06/12
[22:09:15] @ leonardobento : daqui a dois domingos
[22:09:20] @ leonardobento : e vamos marcar às 20h30
[22:09:29] @ leonardobento : que é o horario que tivemos o pessoal entrando hj
[22:09:40] @ leonardobento : pensei no tema: invasão secreta e reinado sombrio
[22:09:43] @ leonardobento : algo mais abrangente
[22:09:46] @ leonardobento : que pega o universo marvel
[22:09:54] @ leonardobento : e faz a ponte com o q lemos agora no brasil
[22:09:58] @ leonardobento : e o que está acabando nos eua
[22:10:14] Bolivartrask : beleza
[22:10:41] @ leonardobento : bom
[22:10:45] @ leonardobento : queria agradecer a todos vcs
[22:10:58] @ leonardobento : bolivar, dan, blackskull, roberto e piotr
[22:11:07] @ leonardobento : que participaram junto com a gente, da equipe mutação
[22:11:09] @ leonardobento : em mais um debate
[22:11:46] BlackSkull foi desconectado o Dom Nov 22, 2009 10:11 pm (seção timeout)
[22:11:49] @ Midg4rd : valeu a participação galera. Eu tive uns probleminhas aqui técnicos...mas de qualquer modo a participação de vocês é de grande importância
[22:12:12] Bolivartrask : aeeeee.. tb gostei
[22:12:20] Bolivartrask : valeu galera
[22:12:44] @ leonardobento : o conteudo será disponiblizado na pasta
[22:12:45] @ leonardobento : em minutos
[22:13:20] @ leonardobento : um abraço
[22:13:22] @ leonardobento : e boa noite
[22:13:35] Bolivartrask : valeu
[22:14:24] DanReztek : Beleza, gostei tbm do debate, tava ocupado mas deu pra acompanhar legal
[22:15:15] @ leonardobento : valeu a participação, dan

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